Is it really a Rottweiler?

[damp]

Originally Posted by otis

I was referring to the GERMAN standard. NOT the American standard. The GERMAN standard can be found in almost any Rottweiler publication. It has performance standards.

Your Rottweilers are not protective, not wary of strangers, don't care if they are with you, and best of all, "welcomes everyone"??????????????????? Pathetic

I suppose the GERMAN Rottweiler Standard you refer to, is the one posted on ADRK's homepage?
I can't for my life find any of the above sentences,
nor the words protective, wary, welcomes all!!!!
(Perhaps it would be a good idea to read the source you refer to! )
But I do see a list of eliminating faults!

Originally Posted by dipper

An example of a breeding announcement that you can find in seconds almost anywhere on the net:

Multi V-rated SO and SO's pookie wookie OFA: Good CGC
will be bred to:
Insert (mostly) titled German stud from well known kennel here with many working titles and all health clearances and Ztp etc.

See any thing wrong here?? I do!!
You see, Many good German breeders will sell their studs for a good price but just try to get them to part with a good bitch---rarely happens---they keep those for themselves and their programs don't they??
Again, breeders are quick to tell you how great their bitch is but they have nothing to back it up---nothing.
Do you see a problem here?? Breeding bitches that don't even have a BST or Ztp on them---is this OK?? No eyes no heart no elbow clearances is this OK??
Then you read: puppies will be high drive and suitable for work---PLEASE!!
To many people think the stud brings everything to the party----the bitch brings just as much.

Of course we'll never know about some bitches---they get their "Multi V -ratings" before they are 2 years old and then get ofa clearance and become puppy makers---most people outside of the breeder know little about the temperament of the bitch----see??

Maybe that is why we have so many Rottweilers that don't meet the standard as far as temperament is concerned---maybe we are hiding some questionable temperaments.

We can't disagree about this....

[Skip]

Originally Posted by dipper

OK Skip, you don't believe or like the swing set story and thats fine.

EVERYTHING else Otis said had merit, everything.
......

If you want Otis to back up his claims on training fine but don't dismiss everything else he said because it is true.

Rich

"evrything else he said because it is true?" please. I am a HUGE proponent of bettering the breed, breeding better rotts, training better rotts, but don't come on here with some bogus (so far) credentials and BS stories to try to get people to "see the light" while you remain "hidden and in the dark". I think the basic topic (the watering down of the breed here) is a great one, and one I'd be glad to converse about, it's just that bad credentials and BS stories negate the OP adding anything helpful to the topic.

[dipper]

Again Skip, other than the swing set thing and his MAYBE bogus credentials what did he say about Rottweilers that was not true??

Forget about first impressions and such and just point out what he said wrong about the dogs.

Rich

[Steelerfan]

Izzy welcomes strangers, although she might get protective if a troll showed up.

[princessmom]

I'm no breeder and far from being an expert on the breed. This being said, is exactly why I am part of this group. I'm here to learn, and share experiences. What got me about this post wasn't necessarily WHAT the OP said but the tone in which it was related. Further, when challenged he became even more hostile and insulting. I'm usually not one to be "baited" and mostly just leave people alone. You know...you have your opinion and I have mine. I'll listen to yours and if it seems to have merit I will seriously consider it. But it's hard to even "hear" what your point is when it starts out as an arguement with no provocation.
Just my humble opinion.
Keli

[moondog]

Originally Posted by Steelerfan

Izzy welcomes strangers, although she might get protective if a troll showed up.

LOL, same here!

Originally Posted by princessmom

... it's hard to even "hear" what your point is when it starts out as an arguement with no provocation.

Have to say I agree.

The problem I have with it is when truths (and there are some in the OP's original post) are mixed in with half-truths, and worse, generalized criticism of......who, exactly? It's too much work to sort out and respond to, so the whole thing goes in the bin. Besides, the truth that is present are things that are discussed here daily, so no "light bulb moment" and nothing new there at all.

I was hoping he would jump right in and start helping with some of those "fix it" posts he so readily rejected in his introduction. That's where help was proffered, not in the lecture hall.

I still would like to see those two different standards he's referring to, American and German.

Just my opinion, of course.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by dipper

Again Skip, other than the swing set thing and his MAYBE bogus credentials what did he say about Rottweilers that was not true??

Forget about first impressions and such and just point out what he said wrong about the dogs.

Rich

OK, I'll bite: For starters:

TEMPERAMENT-This trait greatly depends on you. This is the one trait that you can have a great impact on. He can be a lover or a fighter. Some Rottweilers are extremely protective and unless tempered can cause major problems. Keep in mind that this dog is easily capable of crushing bones with ease. And if he ever get an individual off his feet-the guy is toast. Socialization at an early age is a must. More about that in a later post.

Disagree with the basis of this. Temperment is born in the dog, and that is what GREATLY determines it. It can be improved, damaged, polished, etc.. in it's upbringing, but it is in the genes. The OP also seems to dwell on the "protective" and the scare tactics to make a point such as of "And if he ever get an individual off his feet-the guy is toast". His whole statement about temperment deals with biting and protection, and while I am a BIG fan of any good working rott, to me good temperment is much more than biting and protection.

[Obelix]

otis;802650]WOW!

I guess I really ruffled feathers here

.
You sure did.

your Rottweilers AREN'T protective

No that is not what they are.They are protctive if trained that way, and the protection without training ,is their appreance and posture.

aren't wary of strangers

that's fine as long as they don't go asking to be petted by every stranger.

care if they are with you or not,

Wrong,they love to be with the pack.

and welcomes everyone with open arms?

Wrong again.They don't like everyone but they(the well-educated) will allow to be petted by strangers in the presence of the owner.

Apparently you have some really watered down Rots

.

Wrong again.I have a dog from german(working) lines .As all my RotTs came from.If watered down means for you less agressive and a little easier to educate:fine to me.

Let me guess now, all of you are from the United States

.

Wrong again.I am Eurpean,live and work next to Germany.

I was referring to the GERMAN standard. NOT the American standard. The GERMAN standard can be found in almost any Rottweiler publication. It has performance standards.

Wrong again.There is only ONE standard for the breed and that's the standadrd set by the ADRK.

Your Rottweilers are not protective, not wary of strangers, don't care if they are with you, and best of all, "welcomes everyone"???????????????????

Pathetic

I agree.The way you try to convince people reminds me on an old schoolteacher of mine.Stories and talking about his adventures which he believed in himself.(he ended up in psychiatry,as a patient)

For the individual that asked about my 30 years experience and "titles". I trained WORKING military and security dogs. Dobermans & Rottweilers. Titles? You must be joking

Just some credentials, please?

[dipper]

OK Skip I see your point.

I took what Otis said in a different context---maybe he technically mis-spoke but I understood his meaning.

I understood what he said or got the meaning of what he was trying to say because I owned such a dog.
I am not the best trainer or the most experienced or an "expert" on the breed but I owned a dog that if put in the wrong hands, would have been a nightmare.
He was a very dominate, hard dog with very high fight and defense drives--but, very few people saw this---out in public he was fine. IN public,he was not aggressive or outwardly mean, he was approachable and friendly so everyone thought "hey, great temperament!!" which was true---however, if the wrong kind of person owned him --"matcho type"--he would have been looked at in a entirely different light and I am sure his life would have been cut short.

I think that maybe that is what Otis was saying----Maybe he'll come back on and explain things for himself---he should anyway.

My current dog is a 3/4 brother to your Shane---he is working out pretty good.

Peace,

Rich

[JoJo]

I think that maybe that is what Otis was saying----Maybe he'll come back on and explain things for himself---he should anyway.

I agree. I believe he has passion and maybe gets a bit over excited in explaining what he means. I for one can relate to "not having a great writing style" like some on this forum who's words just flow.

Not only that, I really do want to hear the difference between the German vs American standards. I think he was trying to say "working ability". But then again, if his training experience is with MWD only, then we aren't talking apples and oranges.

[radioactive54]

Is this what this forum is all about?
Tearing an individual apart because of a post that he submitted. Taking everything written, line for line, and dissecting it? Taking things out of context and humiliating the person. Personal attacks against him because he voiced his opinion. You don't personally know this person. He may be as he says. Retired from the military, after serving his country so that we can all be safe. Perhaps he is disabled, alone, and actually thinks he is helping with his posting. I guess you showed him while sitting behind your computers with the toddy mentality.
Is this what all of you are about?
If a post is generated that you don't agree with, you take it word for word and humiliate the poster, laughing at him, making jokes about him at his expense.

After reading all of your "cut and paste" and replies, I was sure that when I checked YOUR profiles I would have get a reference manual to interpret all of YOUR titles and qualifications. And so-

I took the time to view the "profiles" of the judges and found absolutely NOTHING regarding THEIR credentials, or anything about them in most cases. Not a photo, contact info, group joined, etc. These people have been on this forum for years and posted 1500+ entries and there is nothing about them listed. One profile just stated the country, other one states "titles". (of who knows what)
Isn't it strange that for individuals that supposedly know so much more about the breed than Otis, haven't posted a photo of THEIR dogs. Not any. Virtually not a bit of information on any of these people. And some of them have been on this forum for years. Interesting to say the least.

Even with all of the vile attacks, the guy still didn't personally attack any of you. I think that it is healthy and informative to get different perspectives from individuals that you don't agree with. In most cases it gives you a better understanding of the issues. It gives you the opportunity to view the subject from all sides.

Yet, you belittle someone that you don't even know, then asking "what are his credentials?, or "He should first "prove himself". Prove himself? To whom? Isn't this a group of discussion, listening to peoples opinions, ideas, concepts etc? This was his first posting in the actual forum. Are these people so self centered that attacking is the only way they can express themselves when they have a disagreement. But then thats easily done behind a computer screen when you aren't actually face to face.

You ripped him apart on the "temperament" issue. He may have meant that you have the ability to possibly "control" the temperament aspect to a certain degree. My Rott is very aggressive, but he has gotten better because of my husbands training. Of course "temperament" is a breed issue.

This was the "temperament" interpretation that I got from HIS post.

I just joined this forum, and for the record, I'm a 54yr old female and an introvert. I am shy and fit the category of "tech gal" (nuclear medicine). Being attacked, as some of you have done to this individual, would have devastated me. The concept of crushing someone that has done nothing to you is completely foreign to me. Especially when it seems that it was so well orchestrated.
I sure many of you got immense enjoyment from it.

Is this what all of you are about?

Please feel free to attack me. I won't be visiting this forum again to read it.

[SABELLESMOM]

Otis, I'm curious. What was your purpose in beginning this post? To inform? To show us how opinionated -vs- knowlegable you are? To boost your ego? To start a debate? To be insulting? What? Forgive me, but you've written an extensive fairly rambling discourse, and I fail to find the point. Unfortunately, it gave me a headache.

I can agree people should research the breed seeking to attain a Rottweiler. I agree with the tired, but true addage that the "Rottweiler is not for everyone." Yes, dogs are needlessly euthanized every year.

...But what, specifically, did you intend with this post? Opening a debate, I can understand. But which debate? There are so many avenues you've opened.

The overall picture I'm getting is the German bred -vs- American bred. In which case, either can have excellent breedings... and very poor ones. It's also been discussed over and over. I have been to Germany, many times. I've seen some wonderful Rottie's! Yes, they have built in some suitable breedability tests available.

It does not necessarily follow that all American breedings are poor. There are many dedicated breeders who do it properly, here, as well. Without much consideration, you assume the USA is all about conformation. Not true. Many here believe in titles at both ends. Most of my friends do are active ONLY in the work venues.

Not everyone is a BYB in the states. And tho I have somewhat limited experience thru my travels, I have seen a few "scrubs." Yes, IN Germany! (Where I was born BTW)

[temperamental]

I guess all of you experts told him a thing or two. But I wonder who made you gods. Opinions of other people really don't matter on this God's gift to the Rottweiler World forum.

Its run by a chosen few, that supposedly contribute extremely valuable information, (and if you don't believe it, ask them).

If anyone dares dissagree with "our" moderators, guess what? Their posts aren't posted. Just like this one won't be.(but you will probably show me by posting it.)

By the way, who is this DAMP person that there doesn't appear to be any info on. "It" seems to have a lot to say when there is nothing about them that can be found.

And guess who our moderators are? "People that contribute the most, giving us normal humans valuable information that only they possess"

Sounds like DAMP.


Give me a break

[Skip]

We'll see what he says when (and if) he wants to continue the discussion. Seems like "his feathers were ruffled" more than he could handle.

[JoJo]

We'll see what he says when (and if) he wants to continue the discussion. Seems like "his feathers were ruffled" more than he could handle

Skip I'm going to give Mr. Otis the benefit of the doubt as down here in Florida (in the area that Otis and I live) we not only had sporadic power outages during the day but also a very severe storm last night. He may not have had electricity to log on the computer. Though today is beautiful outside but cool.