Sit Means Sit training for deaf dog?

[fostermom]

Has anyone used this group?? Sounds like they use e-collars??? My brother recently adopted a deaf dog that has already snapped at a couple of people...they KNOW they have to get it into training. SitMeansSit has trainers in his town (Hampton Roads, VA) and they claim to work with deaf dogs. Any thoughts/suggestions?
Dog Training - Sit Means Sit Dog Training

[SABELLESMOM]

Saw the video. Was that dog in particular a deaf dog? I've seen many dogs trained as that one was. I like attentiveness, but this, to me, is overkill.

Just personal, don't everyone get huffy on me. To explain, I simply want my dog paying attention to me out of the corner of her eye... not neck wrenching, or me bumping into her.

Now, on to deaf dogs: Deaf dogs can successfully be taught much the same as clicker training... using a hand held flasher (instead of a clicker) and hand signals (instead of spoken word).

[moondog]

My thought is "No WAY!" Do a little reading here and I think the reason will become obvious:

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/tra...r-seminar.html
http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/sea...archid=1109462

[fostermom]

I had the same thought about the video. I've read about using a vibrating collar to train deaf dogs which sounds pretty benign..I'm not sure if the "remote collar" used by SitMeansSit is similar or a more negative stimulus. I would worry about someone using primaily negative stimulii to train a dog which is why I'm trying to find out if anyone's familiar with SitMeansSIt. My brother's only had the dog a couple of weeks, and it's already lunged at a couple of people...someone coming into the house (my brother thinks the dog was "protective" of his wife...don't jump on me about that..he said it, I didn't!!!!) and the second time a neighbor was petting it at the fence and when a worker in his yard came over, the dog lunged at him (my brother thinks the dog was "startled").
I'm thinking the dog needs some behavior modification, not just obedience training...would an e-collar be useful in that case? I did find several certified pet dog trainers listed in his area...some of which advertise using only positive reinforcement. Does anyone know what would work best with a deaf dog????
He acknowledges he needs to find a trainer to work with them...I

[moondog]

The following refers to use of a VIBRATING collar (V-Collar) as an aid to training a deaf dog. Very different than what you'd get with Sit means Sit dog training! Did you read any of the threads I linked to?

DDEAF Training Tips

This website has a Trainer search function also, with many trainers in New York

[fostermom]

Moondog,
I think we posted at the same time....thanks, I'll read the threads.

[fostermom]

Moondog,
Thanks...I had tried doing a search for remote collar and SitMeansSit and couldn't find anything but obviously I plugged in the wrong search words!!! Those threads are exactly the kinds of info I was looking for. I had already sent my brother the link to the CPDT trainers for his area (Virginia) listed on the Deaf Dog site...I'm always suspected that was a much better way to go, but wanted to make sure.

[moondog]

I used "Fred Hassen" for my search words. There's also another thread from a few years ago (that I couldn't find) where an e-collar was being used on a dog during a gathering of friends at the owner's home. Dog milling amongst guests, owner hits the button for some reason, and the dog turned and bit the closest person! I'm almost certain that person was using the Sit Means Sit method with her dog - he was basically ruined by the end of it.

[melvinsmom]

You know I had a Sit Means Sit trainer in the area come by the house to do a demonstration and eval. SHE WAS HORRIBLE!! Her dogs were shaking and scared of her, they didn't do commands very well. She was hitting the button on the e collar like a maniac!! I mean I am in no way against e collars but I can say that she did NOT know what she was doing properly...anyways there are differetn trainers for various areas so i don't know if there are some betters than others...but she was awful.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by melvinsmom

Her dogs were shaking and scared of her, they didn't do commands very well. She was hitting the button on the e collar like a maniac!!

If you read the first thread I linked to above, you will see the Sit Means Sit philosophy......."Button, Button, Button"! (read, "threat, threat, threat")

The only "Button, Button, Button" experience my dog is ever going to have is from a clicker!

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by moondog

I used "Fred Hassen" for my search words. There's also another thread from a few years ago (that I couldn't find) where an e-collar was being used on a dog during a gathering of friends at the owner's home. Dog milling amongst guests, owner hits the button for some reason, and the dog turned and bit the closest person! I'm almost certain that person was using the Sit Means Sit method with her dog - he was basically ruined by the end of it.

While the concept is excellent, and training like this can be proofed very well with an ecollar for off lead control, Mr. Hassan's methodology tends to be less than humane, to put things politely. To train a dog well with this concept in mind is not an instant success method, but rather a foundation is built and behaviors are lengthened and strengthened through good operant conditioning techniques, and clear communication. Much like the layering of an onion, this type of training is built over time. The use of a release command instead of a stay command is common.

I'd begin by shaping behaviors much like I would with a new puppy - using treats and guiding the dog into position, and rewarding in a timely fashion.

Hand signals could be introduced once the dog is attentive enough to follow the lead easily. Leash always to control the outcome while in the teaching phase.

I haven't looked at the other links provided as I'm short on time, but will join in later on this thread.

Hassan = good theory gone bad.