Confused about contracts

[toby01]

To say I'm confused is to put it lightly. I've figured out that just because a contract is wordy doesn't mean it's worth a dime. But how do you determine what's good/bad/normal?

Currently, I have a wonderful 11 month old male. I realize that through my own ingnorance, I have made some less than perfect decisions in the purchase area. I'm working on building up my doggie education.

I'd like to get prepared now so that if I decide to get another dog in a couple of years, I'll be ready.

What do you guys think about these topics?

1- Deposits? I just read a contract that requires a $500 deposit. Normal, abnormal, or ridiculous?

2- Health guarantee? I've seen some that if your dog has HD, you have to return it for a replacement pup. Not in my lifetime would I ever return a dog because it's not perfect. Is this common?

3- Stud service? I was very impressed by this site but they stated in their contracts that if you had a show quality male that passed all of the health clearances and met their rigorous standards, they could use it as one of their studs. Isn't that . . . strange?

4- Owning both sire and dam? Is that a red flag or not? I've heard some mention that the breeder should not own both. Any truth to that?

Is there anything specific that should make me run? Or likewise, give me the impression that this is a good contract?

Thanks for the input.

[brunie's mom]

I've been looking around at breeder websites and reading the different contracts also. I think the contract really tells you about the breeder. Also...if there is something in the contract that you do not like...you can option to have things changed. For example the age to neuter/spay...one contract I saw the breeder wanted the companion pups to be neutered/spayed at 6 months of age.
I think that is too young....but it is negotiable with the breeder.

1) I think $500. deposit is WAY too much. I do understand about leaving a refundable deposit for $100-200. So that the breeder knows that you are serious and committed to getting a puppy.

2) Giving the dog back if the dog develops crippling HD or any other serious medical problems is terrible. Good breeders will offer you a replacement puppy (without giving back the original dog as long as it is spayed/neutered), or give you the purchase price back of the pup.

3)The breeder being allowed to use the dog as stud in their breeding program if it qualifies is something I have heard of. I've seen it in many good breeders Show Dog contracts. They want to keep their bloodlines going...no problem with that.

4) Very rarely do good breeders use their own males on their females...but if they got them from different lines and think they would be a match...they may try breeding them.
If it was done more then a couple of times...I would be worried.

Gina

[Sharon Marples]

1- Deposits? I just read a contract that requires a $500 deposit. Normal, abnormal, or ridiculous?

In my opinion, ridiculous. There is no real need to ask for a deposit. Again, in my opinion, a breeder should have plenty of people waiting in line for their pups prior to breeding a litter. If someone wants a pup and then backs out at the last moment, there would always be someone else who would love to have that puppy. We never ask for deposits on our puppies.

2- Health guarantee? I've seen some that if your dog has HD, you have to return it for a replacement pup. Not in my lifetime would I ever return a dog because it's not perfect. Is this common?

I think this is very unfair. Who wants to return a dog that they have fallen in love with? They should either offer you money back or another puppy. Of course that would include the dog you presently have be neutered or spayed if not already called for in the contract.

3- Stud service? I was very impressed by this site but they stated in their contracts that if you had a show quality male that passed all of the health clearances and met their rigorous standards, they could use it as one of their studs. Isn't that . . . strange?

You talk about a pyramid scheme! Are you saying that they feel they can use the dog as much as they want? Our contracts allow us to use a dog we sell (once titles and health certs are attained) for a specific number of breedings or collections of semen, but it does not allow us to use the dog randomly for the length of its life. The reason we give ourselves this option in our contract is only in case a bitch that we keep for ourselves has soemthing happen that prevents us from using her as a broodbitch. Having the option to use or collect a stud dog that we have sold allows us to continue the bloodline if that is what we desire.

4- Owning both sire and dam? Is that a red flag or not? I've heard some mention that the breeder should not own both. Any truth to that?

It all depends. There are many good breeders that own both. This is an area in which you need to do specific research. If both dogs are titled, if they both have all of their health clearances,if the breeder is placing the puppies in good, solid homes, then it may be a situation that is ok. In the past, we have owned stud dogs that we have used on our own bitches, but we have never bred the same bitch more than once to the same stud dog. If I had a successful litter from a breeding now, I might repeat it, but more than likely would go to an outside dog for future litters from that bitch. Research is the name of the game here. You can find tons of BYB people that purchase dogs just to breed to each other just to produce $$$ for their pockets, these are the ones you need to stay away from.


Is there anything specific that should make me run? Or likewise, give me the impression that this is a good contract?

In terms of contracts, red flags include (but definitely are not limited to) are:

1) Breeders who allow you to take a dog and giving you the option to breed that dog without the dog being required to earn all health clearances and titles prior to being bred.

2) Breeders who will not guarantee that the dog will adhere to the breed standard and who will not guarantee hips, eyes and hearts for at least three years.

3) Breeders who own both the stud dog and bitch, neither of which have health clearances nor titles.

4) Breeders who do not require that the pets they sell as companions be spayed or neutered

5) Breeders who will not refund a deposit (if they require one) if they do not have a puppy from a particular litter for you

There is lots more, but this is a start to what a contract should contain (again, in my opinion).

I myself would have some hesitation in working with this particular breeder.