Dog bite! My 10mnth old bit me

[Baxter's Mom]

When I was in high school, I learned a cruel and unfortunate lesson that follows me to this day from my parents and a black lab/ dalmation mix named Walker. Walker was a very smart dog, he learned, understood and obeyed commands immediately, he also ran beside me on my bike and ran with me everyday. He and I were attached to the hip, he would follow me everywhere, he would pull a wagon when I had to pick up sticks in the yard. Our trainer was amazed at how smart he was, he was always friendly with people, happy go lucky. One night I was walking him on leash, as usual, he was at a heel, when we walked back into the driveway, my dad had a friend of his and they were outside talking... We walked up and with no warning, Walker proceded to bite the crap out of the back of his leg, and he was wearing shorts. I remember seeing blood everywhere, and this God-fearing, church going man was cursing up a storm. He had to go to the hospital, Dad's friend said he got bitten by a dog, but never told them who the dog was, he had to have a ton of stitches. The next day, I get home from school, and Walker is gone, Mom took him to the vet and had him put to sleep, without even telling me or allowing me to say good-bye. She said, and I'll never forget it, " I love you, and I know how much that dog has meant to you, I know how much you have worked with him, but I watch babies, and people are coming and going here all the time, we can't have a dog like that here." Mom's crying at this point, because being a junior in high school at the time, I hated her at that momemt for taking my best friend away,(and she knew it, teenage stage) then she said, " I'm sorry."
I remember crying myself to sleep at night for weeks, blaming myself, playing the what-if game and then Mom asked me one day, if there was one thing I could change with Walker what would it be and the answer was nothing. You see, he went to obedience classes, he did all that socialization stuff and in the end, he still died. Is it my fault? Mom says no(and she still stays by that to this day), but his death will always be on my hands and I will always blame myself. For two years, I didn't have a dog, instead I spent my time doing research on history of dog bites, dogs killing people, how wolves interact with each other, and watched millions of people with their dogs and how they interacted, and I saw many different behaviors and personalities. ( Sit at bench, or walk through a neighborhood, it's never hard to pick out the dominant dog, or hyperactive dog, or the aggressive dog, or the calm dog) Anyway, I see alot of take the dog to obedience class or socialization class, and NILIF, and in the end the dog always needs more than just that. If he's aggressive, that has to be dealt with firmly( without being abusive) and decisively, no if's or buts. Being firm and decisive is not being a bully, it's potentally saving his life. Teaching your dog half dog behavior, half obedience- you are getting the best of both worlds: A dog who is obedient and who understands his place as a pack member.

Originally Posted by LavenderRott

I'm also not sure why one would need to "reclaim" a dog's food bowl. I have my dogs sit while I prepare and put their dishes down and they wait until they are told it is ok before they can eat. Then I leave the room. I don't like people mucking around with my meals and I respect my animals enough to give them the same consideration.

If I had to deal with food aggression, I think I would prefer to add tasty bits to a dish while the dog eats. This will show the dog that I am not a threat being near his dish. Removing his dish just show him/her that they were right to worry in the first place.

I never said anything about removing his dish, but don't you think putting cookies into his dish will encourage food aggression???

* Everybody has different methods of training their dogs, this is mine- half dog behavior, half obedience; and I don't expect anybody or everybody to agree with me on it, but it works for me, it works for my dogs. They are happy go lucky dogs, they know their place is a pack member, they feed off of my reactions and they also listen and obey to commands. They have been taught right from wrong. They are the love of my life, my kids, they are spoiled beyond measure, I will protect them, feed them, brush them, love them, clean up after them, train them, be their mom, be their disiplinarian, and be their friend, in turn, I ask them to follow the house rules, always be friendly and gentle to people,listen and obey. They got it made.

[LavenderRott]

A dog who growls and snaps at his/her owner for taking a food bowl is not necessarily an aggressive dog. If this dog had attacked the OP leaving a wound requiring numerous stitches because she walked in the room when it was eating - that would be a different ball game.

This is simply a matter of a dog who thinks he is the boss. NOT aggressive - just a bit dominant. Something most of us have dealt with at one time or another.

Sorry, but an alpha roll is an outdated bullying move and the owner is not as experienced as you are. To try to forcefully place a dominant dog in what is percieved in the "dog world" as the single most submissive position there is - is a serious bite waiting to happen for someone less experienced. You can be firm and decisive with a dog without bullying it into submission or, for that matter, ever laying a hand on it.

As for the reclaiming of the food - I think I will stick to my proactive method of keeping young children away from the dish at feeding time.

[GypsysMom]

I dont take my dogs food away, I can if I choose to but I dont, I wouldnt want someone walking up while Im eating and taking my food as much as I like food I would growl lol I also dont allow my kids to go near the dogs while they are eating, they feed them, they make them sit and wait until the food is on the floor before eating but never do they take it..

My dogs especially Chopper find me more as the pack leader instead of my husband even though he knows we are including the kids are above him, he does things to my husband he would never try with me.. he has bit my son before but not because he was aggressive but my son was acting like a dog and invaded his space, he required stitches but I didnt put my dog down I re-educated myself and especially my son..

Good luck

[zorro13]

Lavender rott: you said: A dog who growls and snaps at his/her owner for taking a food bowl is not necessarily an aggressive dog.

Apparently to some people, it is only fair for the dog to get ticked and retaliate against an owner for doing such. WRONG. A dog who growls/snaps at it's owner is NEVER EVER acceptable. This is the exact type of thinking that gets the dog put onto a table and then a needle injected into it. Control is gone, leader status is gone, respect is non-existant. Now in all fairness, I'm not saying one should grab bowls at will just to mess with the dog's head, quite the opposite. I once knew someone who had to put both of those gigantic bowls down at once cause if they did it one at a time, the dog had a conniption fit. That is pure lunacy. What's really happening here in these types of situations is one of two things: A. someone is being lazy with training or B. such a person is scared/intimidated by the rott, has lost or possibly never even had alpha status. I'll even go as far to say that the rott is too much dog for such a person, that is, if an owner can't get a handle on these types of issues. Sheesh, when your own dog starts biting you, that is a big huge problem. It's dominance, it's aggression, and it will continue to elevate until the dog runs the household in it's entirety. I've seen that happen too, and of course, the dogs gets the needle in the end. Sad.

[LavenderRott]

Originally Posted by zorro13

Lavender rott: you said: A dog who growls and snaps at his/her owner for taking a food bowl is not necessarily an aggressive dog.

Apparently to some people, it is only fair for the dog to get ticked and retaliate against an owner for doing such. WRONG. A dog who growls/snaps at it's owner is NEVER EVER acceptable. This is the exact type of thinking that gets the dog put onto a table and then a needle injected into it. Control is gone, leader status is gone, respect is non-existant. Now in all fairness, I'm not saying one should grab bowls at will just to mess with the dog's head, quite the opposite. I once knew someone who had to put both of those gigantic bowls down at once cause if they did it one at a time, the dog had a conniption fit. That is pure lunacy. What's really happening here in these types of situations is one of two things: A. someone is being lazy with training or B. such a person is scared/intimidated by the rott, has lost or possibly never even had alpha status. I'll even go as far to say that the rott is too much dog for such a person, that is, if an owner can't get a handle on these types of issues. Sheesh, when your own dog starts biting you, that is a big huge problem. It's dominance, it's aggression, and it will continue to elevate until the dog runs the household in it's entirety. I've seen that happen too, and of course, the dogs gets the needle in the end. Sad.

Hold the phone! I certainly didn't say that it was acceptable behaviour! It is dominant behaviour and if an owner is dedicated and willing to be educated, it can be corrected. At this point, there is still a chance for someone to get a handle on the situation, turn the dog around and have a great pet - so long as they don't forget who is the boss. And it isn't the dog.

[bleh60]

My rottie had some "issues" too. we got her from the shelter when she was about 5. she had been there for over a year and we had no clue as to what her past had been. She would growl if you came near her if she had a bone or a treat, or if you stuck around too long while she was eating from her bowl. But she'd never bite. She'd just sit there and growl and because it was really never a threat we just left her alone to eat in peace. Now if we had raised her from a puppy this behavior would never be tolerated. But for her it never lead to anything else and the only other sign of agression she showed was when we first got her and she was protecting me and my brothers. Some dogs just have issues you cant break (my girl was probably teased when she was a pup), but if you get them from a puppy i would def not to let them get away with it.

[Lorrie]

Originally Posted by LavenderRott

A dog who growls and snaps at his/her owner for taking a food bowl is not necessarily an aggressive dog. If this dog had attacked the OP leaving a wound requiring numerous stitches because she walked in the room when it was eating - that would be a different ball game.

EXACTLY ... and that is what is so hard for some people to understand. It ISN'T as black and white as some would make it out to be. While the behaviour is not desirable or acceptable .. growling over the food bowl does not necessarily translate as an aggressive dog. I will NOT fail a dog on a temperment test for telling me to get the heck out of his food bowl .. resource guarding is not abnormal and CAN be easily corrected in the right hands. Resource aggression however is a whole different thing .. and for that I have euthanized dogs.

In the case of the OP .. I don not believe the dog is a dangerous dog. She is a Rottweiler and a young one testing boundaries. This is completely NORMAL behaviour. Not acceptable ... but perfectly normal within the "dog" world.

[zorro13]

Lorrie: After re-reading my post, I can see how things can be somewhat misunderstood, my fault entirely.

The title and problem of this particular thread is that of someone who got BIT by their 10 month old dog. To me, it's a pup, an easily corrected thing to accomplish. Yes, it is very very common for a rottie pup, being a dominant dog by nature, to start life out, growling around their food, so then we correct that behavior. I personally don't get my pants in a bunch over something like this, I just correct it and move on. But, since this lady has stated that her dog bit her, this is different, because now it has elevated, but, still correctable, in my eyes. Surely, I for one would not like to see this type of act being repeated over and over.

While food aggression is a type of dominant behavior, I wouldn't put the growling at a 10 scale, it's something that needs to be corrected immediately yes. Snapping? That's a step up from growling, and then you have the bite. Biting/snapping is not only dominance, that is aggression.

In reference to the way people look at things that they aren't always black and white, well, we as humans, we have gray areas. In the dog world? There are no gray areas, they are black and white. As you already know, in a pack, anytime an alpha is tested/challenged, a fight will ensue, that is, if a subordinate is willing to test that far. Dogs live by pack rules which are black and white to them. Everything goes by tiers, there is a pecking order. So, by the time someone gets bit, something was missed prior, still correctable. A growling stage, while normal to us, is still a test in the dog world, or with a new pup in a pack, an actual learning stage of what to do and what not to do. When it then elevates to a snap and on to an actual bite, alpha status is lost. What I am saying is simply to look at it for what it is, correct it, before it elevates into a possibly dangerous and uncontrollable situation. I'm not saying we need to euthanize dogs (I'm actually the last person on this earth to ever suggest that sort of thing to anyone, I will always try to come up with some kind of solution for someone to try) or beat animals into complete submission (on another extreme).

My point was simply that of posts telling this woman who was bit that her dog is not aggressive, which a bite is in fact an aggressive act. No, not a bad dog, just something else that needs to be corrected now. I of course wish any owner with this type of problem the very best of luck, I want to see success for everyone, dog included, in these situations.

[Shiba]

What is Kohler (sp) training?

[Anne]

Originally Posted by Shiba

What is Kohler (sp) training?

I think it's spelt Koehler and it's a method of training I would never use on my dog.

Do a search and it will tell you all about it.

[Shiba]

Originally Posted by zorro13

Lorrie:
My point was simply that of posts telling this woman who was bit that her dog is not aggressive, which a bite is in fact an aggressive act. No, not a bad dog, just something else that needs to be corrected now. I of course wish any owner with this type of problem the very best of luck, I want to see success for everyone, dog included, in these situations.

Hi,

I'm the unfortunate owner that got bit! What advice do you have for me?

[LavenderRott]

Originally Posted by Shiba

Hi,

I'm the unfortunate owner that got bit! What advice do you have for me?

My best advice would be to not allow her to have toys in her bed, use NILIF, and get her into that obedience class.

Have you had any more occurances of this behaviour since your original post?

[zorro13]

Shiba: I apologize to you for going off the beaten path with your problem. I'll offer some suggestions and you tell us what you are comfortable doing and not doing with your dog, and be honest about it, there is more than one way to tackle a problem. If one doesn't work for you, I am sure some of us can come up with some other ideas.

First, I'd like to address the food aggression problem you had or may still be having. From what I understand (and correct me if I'm wrong in any of this) you are handfeeding; basically treats around meal times and also throwing some in her bowl? What I want you to do now is solely hand feed her her food from her bowl, sit in a chair, with the bowl on your lap and feed her. She gets no possession of her bowl right now. I know some people are going to jump and down about this, but you have been bit, so we are going to start over sorta, to regain alpha status. And, you don't have to feed the entire meal, you can start w/ half, then set the bowl down, but you can't leave, you must stay right by the bowl. If you feel she may growl if you do this too soon (only you can judge this), then you can feed the whole meal. If she growls around the bowl, you will need to leash her. Give her a command to come which will be followed by a pull on the leash to come now. When she comes to you, she must sit/stay. Then you go get the bowl and hand feed the rest of the meal. Then, when/if you feel comfortable, start over. I want you to be able to gradually work up to being able to put the bowl down and have your hand in there until she doesn't even blink about it. And, to also run your hands down her entire body while eating and not feel threatened by this. You can only judge when you feel comfortable to reach the next step. The last step will be running your hands thru her body while she eats. If you normally free feed, you can't go back to this until you resolve this problem first. And, when you have ended this problem, anytime you want to add something to her bowl, you can give a command to 'back' or 'back up', make her sit, then add the food to the bowl. This will be no problem for the dog, and also no problem for a dog used to you around a feed dish to walk by ever so often and lightly touch/pet them. My dogs in particular were very comforted knowing I was nearby sometimes, as they would wag their stubbys and sometimes even stop for a moment to follow me to see where I was going to.

The bite you got from taking the toy is pretty much an elevation up the status ladder for the dog. I would still let her have toys. You can let her play with toys in her crate if you are comfortable with that right now. I don't want to put you in a fight/fight situation with that right now. If you want to try, you can let her play for awhile, call her from another room. If she doesn't come, re-enter the room with leash in hand, call her again. If she comes, instant praise and go crazy with it. If on the other hand she growls, you will have to let me know. I'd rather see you spend a couple days first with the food before trying this, only because I don't want you to get discouraged nor upset and I am kinda expecting her to growl, though I don't want her to.

Throughout the day, she will need to have many lessons with you on leash. Basic commands: sit/stay/down etc. With praise (no treats, we're not begging for alpha here, I only say that because there's a problem, if no problem, regular training--the dog gets treats) Keep in mind, you are taking back control, so no treats, just praise and re-affirmation is all she gets right now from you. She must get approval from you, not the other way around. Formal obedience classes will cement the work you are already doing. But, do remember there is play time as well, to enjoy your dog. And, don't pick on her, she will read this as a sign of weakness; that you are commanding her on fear alone.

If you go up or down stairs, and I would do this even if you don't. Put her in a sit/stay, then proceed up the stairs. When you get to the top, call her to you, she is now permitted to ascend or descend if you are going down. If you need a long lead line for this, use it. If she moves before you get to the top or bottom, you will stop, put her back in a sit/stay and proceed again until she gets it. When she gets it, she will get praise. Keep your cool at all times, be patient and be cheerful.

If she barrels thru doors, like going outside etc. This will stop. She will sit/ stay. If she is too close to the door, she will learn to back up away from the door, then sit/stay. Then you go thru first, and put her on a leash if you have to while going thru the door. Then, if your yard is fenced in, release her. Same thing when bringing her back in.

On a final note: I also noticed that you said she was attacked by another dog when she was 4 months old. Now, I realize we can't go back in time, but this is for future reference for you. Being alpha means pack protection, you protect your puppy/dog, not the other way around. I don't know what happened there, but trust could have been lost back then. Puppies not to mention adult dogs find security and safety in their pack and from the pack leader. I realize that sometimes we don't think about these things, or any number of things, and accidents do happen. But, this does affect a young animal as well. This is just for your reference though.

I'll post in another post what happened to my husband and our 1st rottie. (not meaning to hijack your thread)

[Shiba]

[quote=LavenderRott)

Have you had any more occurances of this behaviour since your original post?[/QUOTE]

She hasn't growled at me but I've noticed that she'll growl at family or my fiancee when they pet her while she's got a toy or if she is sleeping. She doesn't show teeth but she growls from within.

[LavenderRott]

Originally Posted by Shiba

She hasn't growled at me but I've noticed that she'll growl at family or my fiancee when they pet her while she's got a toy or if she is sleeping. She doesn't show teeth but she growls from within.

And what do you do when she does this?