Advice for TT

[SaranBear]

Hi I am taking my dog for the Temperament Test in a couple weeks. I know it's supposed to be just like taking the dog for a walk and it involves everyday stuff. I am just nervous about the walking on different surfaces. My dog will go out of his way to walk around weird footing. On the testing site it says they have to walk over an ex-pen. How thick are these? Any advice on how to encourage him to walk on it without actually walking on it myself?

[Cherry Heart]

I am not a pro, but isn't a temperment test sapose to show what the dog is like on an everyday basis? Doesn't it help show you what to work on? It seems like preparing for it would be like cheating. Any advice from the rottie experts out there?

[Sharon Marples]

Here is their website, it will give you some insight into what you will be doing.

http://www.atts.org/index.html

[damp]

Originally Posted by Cherry Heart

I am not a pro, but isn't a temperment test sapose to show what the dog is like on an everyday basis? Doesn't it help show you what to work on? It seems like preparing for it would be like cheating. Any advice from the rottie experts out there?

The purpose of a Temperament test is to show the raw dog, so to speak. In modern society with a responsible owner you will not find a raw dog… but if the dog is pushed hard enough, the judge will get a picture of the true dog and it's reactions to extreme stress and last but not least how the dog recovers from stress.

However … I agree… you don’t train for a Temperament Test… period.
It’s considered cheating. You cheat yourself to get the true “picture” of your dog and you cheat with a certificate your dog didn't (by nature) deserve.
A Temperament test is not about obedience nor what you train your dog to accept or adjust too.
Prove you training skills and your dog's ability to work in obedience or what ever kind of work you do with your dog.
A true temperament test is entering a dog as it is, no matter if it has never been in any kind of training.

Originally Posted by Cherry Heart

Doesn't it help show you what to work on?

Yes... but here also our temperament test shows what and what NOT to breed!

[SaranBear]

I don't think it's cheating. If they minded if you prepared then I don't think they'd post each and every item they test on their website. I just know that he doesn't like to walk on weird surfaces, and so I figured I could practice a little with him to get him used to it. And it would help me a little because I am very nervous about how he'll do. I am not sure what an ex pen is.. How thick it is... how much bounce it will have.... So I am not sure what would be similar for him to walk on. We have some wire fencing (wouldn't hurt his feet), and I was wondering if that was close enough to help him get used to it.

[SaranBear]

I thank you for your opinions. I disagree with the assertion that preparation is cheating. If that were the case once a dog failed it would not be allowed to retest. You are allowed to retest after 5 months. I assume that 5 months is to help you address certain issues... by preparing your dog for situations it may encounter. Temperament is not just a dogs inherited characteristics, but also its acquired characteristics. So if my dog has acquired a slight aversion to weird footing I see no reason to not help him unacquire (is that a word?) this trait.

PS. Have no fear. I will NEVER breed my dog. He is nuetered.

[damp]

Originally Posted by Dakota1235

. If they minded if you prepared then I don't think they'd post each and every item they test on their website.

The description of a test, it be obedience or mentaltest or what ever, is for the handler, so he/she knows what to do, what the rules are and for YOU to be prepared and to calm down!
Can you please tell me, what the purpose af a mental/temperament test is, if the dog has been trained for that????

[damp]

Originally Posted by Dakota1235

Temperament is not just a dogs inherited characteristics, but also its acquired characteristics.

A temperament test is to test the inherited characteristics. PERIOD!!!

Acquired characteristics are tested other places.

[SaranBear]

what dog has not been trained for it? The purpose is to assess the dog's inherent and acquired traits. Acquired traits are just that... acquired, so I don't see how there is any dog that after 18 months hasn't been "trained" for anything (either by life or intentionally by their owner).

[Bucky's Mom]

Originally Posted by damp

Can you please tell me, what the purpose af a mental/temperament test is, if the dog has been trained for that????

This is a good point.

Having said that - the one thing I did "practice" was the "umbrella" part. I knew Bucky had never seen one EVER - so I wanted to see what his reaction would be.

Subtest 5: Umbrella
The handler/dog team approaches an assistant sitting in a chair holding a closed umbrella parallel to the ground at a 90 degree angle to the approaching team. When the dog is five feet from the assistant, the umbrella is opened. The handler may encourage the dog to investigate the umbrella only when asked to do so. The handler's focus must be on the umbrella, not on the dog.

He did fine - I JUMPED back a little

[SaranBear]

Damp,

maybe you have a different definition of temperament, but from reading (and on the ATTS website) It states that temperament is and I quote "the sum total of all inborn and acquired physical and mental traits and talents which determines, forms and regulates behavior in the environment"

I am sorry but where else do I test the acquired characteristics that make up his temperament but in the temperament test?

[Ayoka]

Originally Posted by Dakota1235

I don't think it's cheating. If they minded if you prepared then I don't think they'd post each and every item they test on their website. I just know that he doesn't like to walk on weird surfaces, and so I figured I could practice a little with him to get him used to it. And it would help me a little because I am very nervous about how he'll do. I am not sure what an ex pen is.. How thick it is... how much bounce it will have.... So I am not sure what would be similar for him to walk on. We have some wire fencing (wouldn't hurt his feet), and I was wondering if that was close enough to help him get used to it.

An x-pen is wat we call an Exercise pen...
http://www.sitstay.com/store/equip/xpens.shtml

On the ATTS site, the Q&A secion reads....

"6. What, if any, preparation does my dog need? No special preparation or training beyond normal socialization and exposure to normal living is necessary."

I suppose that by 18 months a dog will have come across some if the things...we have many see-through iron ramps/grates around here which Bear @ 17 months is totally used to, he has also walked on grass, snow and agility equipment...sand, mud, pebbles either here in our city or on our travels. If we ever get a TT test around here I wouldn;t consider us to have "practiced" but I think bear would handle it with a grain of salt.

That being said...if you are doing the temperment test to get an idea about the temperment of your dog and suitability for specific activities, I would agree that "practicing" could affect test results.

If your dog has a serious issue with any of the test stimuli, then a few weeks is unlikely to change anything...in Bear's case...he has never hesitated walking over or onto anything so I doubt the fact that we have walked over tons of different things would affect the test results.

I can understand the nerves though...take comfort in knowing that according to the ATTS website, about 82% of rotties passed.

[SaranBear]

I am not trying to pass off some dog that routinely attacks passersby as a teddy bear. I am not trying to breed my dog. I simply want to learn more about how he will react in certain situations. I know that he avoids grates in the road, he will walk around them. He dislikes walking over water. I know he may avoiding the grates may be because they are over water. I want to see what he'll do with the x-pen beforehand. If it's not a severe reaction then maybe I can get him a little more used to it. That's it....If he is seriously freaked out by it, then 2 weeks won't do a thing. So I am not sure how my checking it out beforehand will skew my results or do any other drastically horrible thing.

Again thank you all.

[damp]

Originally Posted by Bucky's Mom

This is a good point.

Having said that - the one thing I did "practice" was the "umbrella" part. I knew Bucky had never seen one EVER - so I wanted to see what his reaction would be.

Subtest 5: Umbrella
The handler/dog team approaches an assistant sitting in a chair holding a closed umbrella parallel to the ground at a 90 degree angle to the approaching team. When the dog is five feet from the assistant, the umbrella is opened. The handler may encourage the dog to investigate the umbrella only when asked to do so. The handler's focus must be on the umbrella, not on the dog.

He did fine - I JUMPED back a little

No offence…we are all more or less “owner blind” but what is your “owner blind” evaluation of his reaction ???
I don't care if you were scared .... but how would you describe to the letter your dogs reaction????

I think a judge, having gone through years of education and seen 1000 and 1000 of dogs would be better than any owner (including myself) to evaluate any/my dog. You simply deprive yourself to get the best evaluation of your dog’s reaction to new unknown situations…
If you have trained, why the heck spend money to get your dog “tested”?

[damp]

Originally Posted by Dakota1235

I simply want to learn more about how he will react in certain situations. I know that he avoids grates in the road, he will walk around them. He dislikes walking over water. I know he may avoiding the grates may be because they are over water. I want to see what he'll do with the x-pen beforehand. If it's not a severe reaction then maybe I can get him a little more used to it. That's it....If he is seriously freaked out by it, then 2 weeks won't do a thing. So I am not sure how my checking it out beforehand will skew my results or do any other drastically horrible thing.

Again thank you all.

I still don't get it.... if you want to learn/know your dog.... take him to the test as he is and you will LEARN...no matter if he passes or fails!