Proper Rottweiler temperament

[BostonRott]

Yes Sue, I completely agree. The "incorrect" aspect that I was bringing up is the dog who runs up to EVERYONE (known or not, and without taking a good size-up of the person to see if they're "safe") with wiggling, licking (including licking the air), or rolling over. The "over" greeting of EVERYONE is quite incorrect.

[JuneyB]

Thx GraceAAA for the post on therapy dogs...and the connect to the CONRAD thread. For me, therapy is another "job" these dogs can do. There are continual distractions (unexpected) in nursing homes and hospitals and the ability to take that in stride, while continuing on to the next patient, is critical. I agree, a food cart being pushed towards you is not as scarey as the ghost used in Denmark's testing...but the first time it happens, it elicits a similar response.

And it is a beatiful thing to see a large rottweiler siting beside an older gentleman in a wheelchair...always being "ponded" on the head because the ability to "pat" gently has been lost thru arthritis or something else.

Along with the "powerful" that is stressed so often in the standard, "intelligence" to me is key in this breed. They are not simply reactive...they reflect and assess situations...even after they have been "startled" by something new and unexpected. And all the training in the world is not going to overpower a dog's natural reactions...and that is where the siginifgance of true breeding comes in.

[HerculesMomma]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

Yes Sue, I completely agree. The "incorrect" aspect that I was bringing up is the dog who runs up to EVERYONE (known or not, and without taking a good size-up of the person to see if they're "safe") with wiggling, licking (including licking the air), or rolling over. The "over" greeting of EVERYONE is quite incorrect.

I do understand what you are saying, but I have a few parts that I'm stuck on I guess. Maybe my inexperience with dogs in general is showing with my next set of questions......

But I think what you are describing is an overly submissive dog. One of my cousins dogs would fit the above description and quite frankly, she is so submissive I would classify her as fearful. I know you don't want a fearful dog, but in general is the trait of a dog being overly friendly common in breeds in general?

Do Rotties really "wait and see" if someone is "safe"? Isn't that the goal of socializing a dog so that they assume that all things/people are safe?

And isn't bad judgement for the dog to "wait and see" if someone is "safe" when they should be taking cues from their owner of how to react?

If a Rottie is overly friendly, and being overly friendly is not the correct Rottweiler temperment, then any Rottie that is a therapy dog would not fit the classification of a proper tempered Rottweiler? Or do you not need an overly friendly dog to be a therapy dog? Maybe just a friendly dog?

I'm certainly not arguing the correct Rottweiler temperment, but I suppose I am trying to understand it better. I really don't have enough experience with different breeds or dogs in general to know what is the "norm".

I have met someone who has a couple of well bred, well socialized, well trained Rotties and they were pretty darn friendly! The female was almost overly friendly and loved everyone she met and has been since put to work as a therapy dog. The male was probably a little more reserved, but super friendly.

I look back on my 2 1/2 yrs with Herc and I remember I was riddled with anxiety for almost the first year of having him. I had no idea what I was doing and/or what I was dealing with. I considered it very difficult. Now it's a piece of cake. But I also wonder now if he actually fits the correct temperment of a Rottie and if I could really handle a "true" Rottie? Or do I have a correct tempered Rottie and it's just gotten easier. I don't know.

So in the end, I guess I need some help in reconciling the description of the correct Rottweiler temperment.

[GraceAAA]

Originally Posted by HerculesMomma

Do Rotties really "wait and see" if someone is "safe"? Isn't that the goal of socializing a dog so that they assume that all things/people are safe?

If a Rottie is overly friendly, and being overly friendly is not the correct Rottweiler temperment, then any Rottie that is a therapy dog would not fit the classification of a proper tempered Rottweiler? Or do you not need an overly friendly dog to be a therapy dog? Maybe just a friendly dog?

Sue to answer a few of your points...regarding Rotties as therapy dogs, see my response in page 3 of this thread.

Also, the "wait and see" temperament I appreciate in a Rottweiler applies to how they are not a reactive breed. For a simple example, my Dachshunds hear a noise...and fly off the handle barking where as Joy first goes to the door, listens to see what is incoming and then makes a decision as to how she is going to behave. Clearly, Joy's decisions are influenced by her training and my guidance but in general I interpret this part of our standard to indicate a dog who thinks before he acts or reacts.

[AB1101]

I am not an expert, but a wait and see approach to a stranger does not mean that the dog is ready to attack. My puppy will not be friendly with a stranger, unless she feels it is OK. I believe she waits for my approval, but it could be her approval. When in contact with a stranger that is not acceptable, she accepts the greeting with no emotion or response. I am very pleased with her reactions to strangers. An overly friendly dog would not be qualified for Shutshand, and in IMHO would not fit the standard.
An extremely friendly dog with people that are known to be acceptable, is different.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by HerculesMomma

Do Rotties really "wait and see" if someone is "safe"? Isn't that the goal of socializing a dog so that they assume that all things/people are safe?

And isn't bad judgement for the dog to "wait and see" if someone is "safe" when they should be taking cues from their owner of how to react?

My experience of the wait and see is more along the lines of sizing things up, rather than looking for "safeness" as a fearful dog would do. Does your dog ever size you up in play? Mine have.....both of them have held that play bow and just watched me (with a monkey in their eye, LOL), waiting for me to reveal the rules of the game by my actions. That example, to me, is more true to the character of a wait and see attitude.

That's a light hearted example, but I think the same idea follows through to more serene circumstances, such as meeting a stranger on the street. A Rottweiler wants to figure out what piece of the puzzle this "other" is, and where the piece they themselves are fits into it.

[BostonRott]

Originally Posted by HerculesMomma

but in general is the trait of a dog being overly friendly common in breeds in general?

Ever met a Lab or a Golden who didn't love everybody? There are a few out there, but they're the exception, not the rule. That's why the owners of these breeds have such a hard time keeping them from jumping on everyone.

Do Rotties really "wait and see" if someone is "safe"?

Has nothing to do with "safe." It's not a fear issue. It's an "I don't need to meet and love everyone issue." And yes, Rottweilers are like that.

Isn't that the goal of socializing a dog so that they assume that all things/people are safe?

I'm not understanding what "safe" has to do with it. I meet a LOT of people in my job. I can figure out in a second who is safe and who is not. Of the ones who are safe, most of them I have no wish to get to know. Has nothing to do with safety.

And isn't bad judgement for the dog to "wait and see" if someone is "safe" when they should be taking cues from their owner of how to react?

No, it's not. Go back and read the standard. I think you've been reading too many posts on "all Rottweilers should love everyone" which, in my opinion, is crap.....and is why I started several of the recent threads.

This is NOT a breed for everyone.

If a Rottie is overly friendly, and being overly friendly is not the correct Rottweiler temperment, then any Rottie that is a therapy dog would not fit the classification of a proper tempered Rottweiler?

Depends how they behave on their therapy visits. If they are running up to everyone they don't know, and happily greeting them, then yes, that is not correct. "Does not make indiscriminate friendships."

Or do you not need an overly friendly dog to be a therapy dog? Maybe just a friendly dog?

You need a STABLE dog. Many who are infirm or retarded don't need a "happy nazi" jumping all over them and plastering them with slobber (personally, dogs who aren't my own and do that to me get a knee in the chest, I HATE that!).

I have met someone who has a couple of well bred, well socialized, well trained Rotties and they were pretty darn friendly! The female was almost overly friendly and loved everyone she met and has been since put to work as a therapy dog. The male was probably a little more reserved, but super friendly.

In my opinion, there are many "well bred" Rottweilers whose temperament is not correct. There is a difference between "bad" temperament and incorrect. And breeders need to strive for CORRECT temperament, not "nice" temperament.

[GraceAAA]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

Has nothing to do with "safe." It's not a fear issue. It's an "I don't need to meet and love everyone issue." And yes, Rottweilers are like that.

I think this is a perfect example! And, why we have found the Rottweiler to be a great working/Service Dog. Having a dog out in public that doesn't NEED to interact with everyone is a great asset! One of the hardest things many Golden/Lab people have with their dogs in Service is keeping them away from people because the dogs are crazy to see people...as opposed to a Rottie who is fine with seeing people and just as fine passing them by.

[debbiej]

this is quite helpful reading. My dogs are pretty aloof when we are out walking or in public, Boris in particular. when walking past other people, he acts very dignified and stuck up. however, if it is someone I know, and I stop to visit, he thinks he should get attention from the person. not by rolling over, (heaven forbid) but by being a bit pushy. I know this is lack of obedience and manners, and we are working on it and making good progress. Now when people come to our house, that is different. he becomes so excited, and Hilda too, that we have guests. how does this 'hospitality' fit in?

When I first got Hilda, she acted quite aggressive to humans. she was about 7 months old, and had very little socialization. The first set of obedience classes were all she needed to decide that other people and dogs were fun. I used to think she was very fearful and weak nerved, now I think she was just young and unsure. she is very trustworthy in every situation. However, she is a bit more friendly than Boris to strangers.

my dogs are rescues, and in many ways far from the breed standard, but it is very helpful to know more of what the standard is.

I have experienced several situations where understanding what acceptable reactions should be, helps to handle the situation better for my dogs, even knowing that a past of neglect or abuse is not going to truely affect a rottie with good nerve and correct temperament.

[observer]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

Ever met a Lab or a Golden who didn't love everybody? There are a few out there, but they're the exception, not the rule. . . . It's not a fear issue. It's an "I don't need to meet and love everyone issue." And yes, Rottweilers are like that.

Whew. Catching up on this thread and the rest of the board after a few days out of town. It seems that while Missy might err a little on the friendly side, she has demonstrated, unlike Labs and Goldens (like the two I met on Saturday) that she doesn't need to love everyone, and does seem to read people pretty well. While she's not absolutely true to the standard, I think she is closer than the mark than even I might have thought.

[JuneyB]

Just another comment on therapy.....any dog that jumps up on patients......they are not allowed to be therapy dogs here....no matter their size.

[LolaLaRue]

I was just noticing this in my dog this week she used to run up to everyone expecting to be pet and just this week I have noticed that she has become much more aloof she just kind of looks at strangers and is indifferent to them I was thinking it is her coming into maturity she is 14 months now, I was worried that maybe something was wrong but I suppose from reading this thread this is normal.