Opinions on AKC Standard: Change or Not?

[FredAl]

That sentence in the standard can be used against us in a court of law:
(copied from web site http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/civil.htm#Breeder's negligence)

This rule of strict liability is based on the possessor's actual or constructive knowledge of the abnormally dangerous propensity:
"When an owner has reason to believe his dog is savage, ill-tempered, mischievous or dangerous to persons and property, he may be kept only at the owner's risk, who will become liable for damages resulting from such conduct of the dog which exhibits such known traits or character." (Hicks v. Sullivan (1932) 122 Cal.App. 635, 638.)
"[T]he gravamen of the action is knowledge of the owner that the beast was the possessor of vicious or mischievous propensities. Negligence or lack of care on the part of the owner in keeping or restraining the animal need not be shown." (Hicks v. Sullivan, supra, 122 Cal.App. at pp. 637-638.)
"[T]he gist of the action is not the manner of keeping the vicious animal, but the keeping him at all with knowledge of the vicious propensities. In such instances the owner is an insurer against the acts of the animal, to one who is injured without fault, and the question of the owner's negligence is not in the case." (Hillman v. Garcia-Ruby (1955) 44 Cal.2d 625, 626.)

Since the rott standard does not fault a dog from aggressiveness toward another dog, then all owners of rotts have an "actual or constructive knowledge of the abnormally dangerous propensity."

I rest my case.

[WorkinDogz]

And a very good point to rest on too

Dog aggression is a character flaw to me. I won't have it in my kennels. ESPECIALLY since it CAN be controlled via training. To me; "allowing" dog aggression in the show ring is just a go-ahead for handlers and owners to be LAZY and avoid PROPER presentation and training of a dog.

[WillowWin's]

Hey Fred,

Quick question : you stated for some odd reason that German bred dogs are less aggrassive..where do you come up with that one from ? There just as many German rotties out there that do the same thing that I have seen I do both German style shows and AKC in attitude I have seen no difference in the two.If I recall this right the AKC rule is a dog is deemed excused if the dog attacks a person,or judge, the dog is shy in the judges opion and backs away when he is to be examined, if I remember right in the ARV and USRC shows you try to get your dog very excited when being critigued we get them to pull forward bring there favorite toys to get them all excited,if you where to do this in the AKC your dog is gonna be excused.I seen dogs that are being tested in the ARV and USRC that when they go after the attacker more then often I have seen where the handler dosnt have alot of control guess of mine this is why the attacker is very protected.For that I was at the ARV several years ago in Tampa where Bryan Matterhorn was trying to go after every dog that walked by him...So where does that come from German Rotts are less aggrasive? The dog is how you raise it.I believe it is called socialization and you start this at a early age along with Obiedience training...


Kevin

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Willow-Wins Rottweilers

[FredAl]

Hey Kevin,

Where did I come up with that statement about German Rotties having less cases of dog aggression? From my experience of judging, evaluating, rescuing, training and observing thousands of Rottweilers.

I have been judging (FCI) Rotties in Asia and I have judged, evaluated, rescued, trained and tested rotts imported from all over the world -- Australia, New Zealand, Asian, European, African, South and North American countries. But most that I've seen are either from Germany or America.

Since 1982, I've also shown and competed in AKC and USRC conformation and schutzhund while living in Northern Virginia (where I was also a Breed Warden for USRC).

I think I have enough experience with rotts to make the statement that there are far more incidences of dog aggression in American-bred rotties. Of course there are a lot of well-bred, socialized and trained American-bred; just as there are dog-aggressive German-bred.

However, my intent is not to say one is better than the other. I see a flaw in the AKC standard; and I believe it will help if we take out that phrase on dog-aggression.

Now for your other comments:

quote from WilloWin's (Kevin):
If I recall this right the AKC rule is a dog is deemed excused if the dog attacks a person,or judge, the dog is shy in the judges opion and backs away when he is to be examined, if I remember right in the ARV and USRC shows you try to get your dog very excited when being critigued we get them to pull forward bring there favorite toys to get them all excited,if you where to do this in the AKC your dog is gonna be excused.
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There is a big difference between a dog that backs away, and a dog that's alerting on a favorite toy, or even a treat. This action is called baiting. Baiting is also used in the AKC ring; although it is the handler who is doing the baiting. In USRC, double-handling is preferred in order to motivate the dog to alert and stack himself naturally.

It is double-handling that's not permitted in AKC. However, AKC permits hand-stacking, which I don't agree with because the handler can hide the faults of the dog; i.e. east-west fronts, throatiness, cow-hocks, etc.

quote from Kevin:
I seen dogs that are being tested in the ARV and USRC that when they go after the attacker more then often I have seen where the handler dosnt have alot of control guess of mine this is why the attacker is very protected.
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The test you're probably referring to is the ZtP or BST (Breed Suitability Test). Control of the dog is one of the characters that is being tested -- Tractability. The others are Mistrust, Temperament, Excitability, Attentiveness, Hardness, Self-Sufficiency, Courage, Protection Drive, Fearlessness, Fighting Drive, and Reaction to Gun. It takes an experienced eye to judge all these characters. Lack of knowledge of the concepts and mechanics of this test might make one think that a dog is out of control.

The helper (or from your term, "attacker") wears scratch pants to prevent ... well, scratches from working the dogs.

Before a dog is eligible to be tested for a BST, he has to have passed a BH test (an obedience and traffic sureness test), which also tests for dog-aggressiveness.

quote from Kevin:
For that I was at the ARV several years ago in Tampa where Bryan Matterhorn was trying to go after every dog that walked by him...
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Anybody can cite specific instances; but we're discussing a general issue of dog-aggression -- how we can do something to prevent more of these instances.

quote from Kevin:
The dog is how you raise it.I believe it is called socialization and you start this at a early age along with Obiedience training...
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I agree with you, and this is exactly what I'm talking about. Lack of socialization, training and improper breeding practices are just some of the reasons for dog-aggression.

That brings us back to my original post -- if dog-aggression is not faulted in the AKC standard, then why would people try to socialize, train, and breed better rottweilers if they will not be faulted anyway?