Socialization and Discrimination against breed

[Raretreasures95]

hi all,

I have some concerns and need some advice so I'm throwing this into general info because I'm not sure where it goes.

We have a male rottie that will be two years old in April. We live in the San Francisco Bay area and needless to say, with all the media attention the horrible pitbull bites/deaths have gotten for the last year or so, when I have my rottie out I feel very uncomfortable....and it's not very enjoyable at all.

I would never say that he wouldn't hurt someone or protect himself against another dog because I wouldn't want to somehow jinx us, but he is very well trained, has had training off and on since a puppy and listens to commands eagerly on leash. My problem is people's perceptions of him....which I can understand a little in this area.

To put it bluntly, am I a bad owner for beginning to muzzle him on walks just to make others feel more comfortable? Sigh, literally, people who are also walking will stop dead in their tracks, or go the other way...just to avoid us. And he whines and cries, because he thought he was going to meet someone new. At the same time, if I muzzle him he doesn't really enjoy his walks as much and he looks really mean and even more intimidating. How do I handle this situation with naive humans?

I'm not really sure how to handle this problem that we are developing because he's not really getting as much socialization as he needs and deserves because of this. We welcome other dogs into our home and he does fine with them....we also have two other little dogs and he loves them. However, with that said....he's not getting any dog socialization lately because everyone is afraid. He's just beginning to start barking and whining and little growling at dogs passing by our house that he see's out the window. I have tried to take him to a dogpark in the area and literally.....and I am serious, everyone leaves when they see us coming.

How can I socialize my dog when no one wants to socialize with us? Is it proper for me to muzzle him just to keep other humans at ease? Is strapping a muzzle on him helping this or hurting it because of the way he looks (MEAN?) when he has his muzzle on?

Any advice as to what to do and if a muzzle is okay?

[kayozzy]

It is a tough situation. I personally don't like the muzzle especially when it is warm out and it makes panting difficult. But I walk in areas where I rarely pass any people!

I would let them cross the street and you and your dog just keep walking with heads held high. A lot of people will say that dogs don't need to have social time. They have their family and that is really all they need. It makes a lot of sense, but I am kind of like you and like to socialize my dogs. We make play dates with friends and that is great fun for all of them.

[Ilovemypuppy]

Originally Posted by kayozzy

But I walk in areas where I rarely pass any people!

.

In your situation..I would do just that..a dog park is not place for socialization...too many variables and too many things can go wrong. Keep going to training classes and get his socialization there..learning to work around other dogs and ignore those dogs. Dogs do not need nose to nose contact....better that their world revolves around you..their pack :o))

If you can walk him where there are no people...no need for the muzzle...I don't like muzzles anyways and they can make some dogs feel very defensive.

[Mavides]

Sounds silly, but instead of a muzzle, you might try a bandana...for some reason, people think dogs just look friendlier when they're wearing one....or perhaps an "in-training" vest...you don't need to say what he's in training for...just having that on him might put people at ease a little. I think now is definitely the time that you need to get him out there and show off what a well-behaved dog he is to people that might be generalizing that all Rottweilers are evil creatures. Show them that you have complete control of him and he is a good addition to the community!!!

[Raretreasures95]

That's the way I feel as well, I really do not like having to put a muzzle on him. The only reason I even purchased one this late in the game is because the 'trainer' (in parenthesis because I'm really not agreeing with a lot of things that's been going on lately and I feel as though some of the training has been hindering my boy instead of helping him) recommended that I do this, for other people.

I feel like if I do put it on him, he looks defensive....on alert, like he knows he's being punished for something when he hasn't even done anything wrong in the first place.

We haven't even tried the dogpark for months because there are way too many variables going on there, that it's not even worth it to try and have fun and socialize but having to be constantly walking on eggshells all the time. I chalk it up to snotty yuppies

Do you really think that it is enough socialization with us, me and hubby and our 3 kids AND our other two dogs in addition to the family that we have that bring their dogs over? It does seem like alot, but is there a line where I could make him comfortable in his own home but dog aggressive in public because of lack of socialization in that environment?

Part of me was with the trainer, let's go ahead and muzzle him just to make others walking (we have a lot of walkers in our area, with dogs and just humans) feel more comfortable, and then part of me says, let's just get in the van and drive somewhere remote and walk him (not all that pratical just for the sake of strangers and me being a female probably walking him alone...I don't think he would save me!! lol), and then the biggest part of me says you know what? People have misperceptions and that is there problem....my dog has been raised in a stable family, always an inside dog, would greet a burgular probably with huge licks and kisses, has been raised with an infant since day one, a toddler, and another child.......and if those people have some problems because he's a rottweiler, then they can go take a leap to the other side of the street! I'm gonna let my dog enjoy his walks without having to wear a restraining muzzle, lol.

It's difficult!!! I wish some of the bad owners wouldnt' have made it so difficult on we good ones!!!

[Raretreasures95]

Hey mavides,

Those both are WONDERFUL idea's!!!!

Wonder where I can get an in training vest, because I would put it on him constantly......I bet I can find one on ebay :)

The bandanna is a wonderful idea, but I think people would be more inclined to approach us with the training vest on!

You made my day! I was literally sitting here in tears while I was typing before, I really hate to punish my dog (and I believe a muzzle is considered punishment....or for dogs that have shown aggressive tendencies) when he has done nothing at all wrong!


Thank you thank you thank you for the amazing advice!!!

[Brun05]

I would enroll in advanced obediance classes or go find some sport activities or some such for dogs. Maybe even find a Schutshund club in the bay area. You don't have to do Sch training or anything, but you can meet people that 1) have large dogs, 2) are generally more versed and educated about dogs, and 3) possibly, you can become friends with and establish comfortable play dates for your pup.

I even think there is a Rottie club up in that area. Main thing is find people and dogs that you can deal with.

I believe darn near every Rottie owner for the past 10 years is suffering what you're going through. You just need to get around people that can handle larger dogs.

As for socializing, I would rather have no socializing for my pup than deal with 90% of the truly bad "toy" dogs and owners out there.

Another thing (cause I deal with what you do almost every night), I just pay attention to my pup, often I end up giving them dirty looks (untrained yippie dogs). Don't sweat it, those type of people and their dogs are not worth your time or your concern.

Maybe they are actually doing you a favor, ever thought of that? Figure most dog owners in the city/bay area own smaller dogs. Those dogs are rarely trained, or properly socialized. Would you rather have them cross the street knowingly/unkowingly protecting you/your dog? Or would you have them come up to your boy knowingly/unknowingly with a dog that is not socialized, get aggressive with your dog and either traumatize your dog, or end up dead because your boy did the unthinkable and fought back?

Just some food for thought.

[Ayoka]

I think a Muzzle coud make people think he's more dangerous than he actually is!!!!

I have been out with Bear using a Gentle Leader and I've heard people say to their kids, "Oh, that dog is wearing a muzzle, he's dangerous stay away honey." At this point I usually stop and explain what a Gentle leader is..."he's just 7 in human years, just a boy, and he's learning not to pull on a leash"...and let the kids pet bear and give him a treat if their parents allow.

BUT, there will always be people out there who cross the street. I tell myself it's because they are afraid of dogs in general to make myself feel better

I think the Bandana and vest ideas are great and so is getting your dog into a tricks class or dog sport for socialisation and contact with people who know and love dogs of all sizes.

[RottsNScotts]

There are quite a few Schutzhund clubs in the Bay area and the Bay Area Rottweiler Klub (BARK), a USRC club, is active in the area and full of very knowledgeable, caring members.

[LolaLaRue]

I have the same problem here people cross the street pick up their children and walk away witht heir dogs, it has been so warm here I was taking Lola to the beach and other owners didnt want their dogs around her, "Is she mean?" "Does she bite?" "she could eat my dog for a snack!" it has really started to bother me. I have done everything I can to make a good example of the breed, she is in advanced obedience and will be tested for her CGC and Delta Soceity certified therapy dog next month. I just try explain all the ways I have been training her, she just turned a year and is still very much a puppy, I live in a town of labs, goldens, and toy dogs people just dont understand why I would want a 'vicious' dog. There is not much you can do but try and educate others about the breed, I do think a muzzle would make matters worse. Good luck and hold your head high!

[fbkeays]

Leave the muzzle at home. Why on earth should you cater to J Q Public???? What has J Q Public done for YOU lately???? Nothing is the answer. If your dog has not done anything that would cause you to think that he is not safe, then why make the whole world think that he would by having him muzzled????
Who is this "trainer"? Where do you live?

[myst]

i only know that if I see a dog muzzled it is because the owners were ordered to muzzle. the dog has been deemed vicious by the way. if your dog is fine with others and people just walk:) you should not be afraid of anyone as you have a fine, well-behaved dog.
some people just are not dog people and some just need a little nudge to pet your dog and learn how nice rotties can be.
also there is Rally-O, OB, and agility to play with.
don't forget to smile and say hi to everyone you meet on walks.

[Cash]

I used to live in the Bay Area, for 10 years... I didn't have a Rottweiler at the time but I frequent my friends who still live there. I have brought Cash to Baker Beach, the parks down at Crissy Field, Union Street shops, Fillmore Street shops, and all of the "snotty" areas you can imagine. I am full aware of the issues with our breed, and I am actively now fighting BSL down here in LA.
Nothing, I mean NOTHING, dispells the myth of a vicious 'breed' than the public meeting a great ambassador. I frequent a stretch of beach down at Seacliff with my dog on our visits. We practice a few OB lessons and then we would walk the beach. We met very nice people on our outings and had many a discussion as to why Rottweilers get a bad rap. But, I know in my heart that if they didn't see a well behaved dog they never would of approached us. Take pride in your dog and stop punishing him for something he has not done. There is no need for your dog to wear a muzzle. You cannot change the minds of people that cross the street because they don't know your dog is friendly. Worry about affecting the people that are wiling to engage you, and respect the fears of the others. You most likely won't reach them anyway. Unless and until your dog 'needs' to be muzzled it's supremely unfair to him to have to suffer a public paranoia.

I don't know who your trainer is - but I would dump him/her. Immediately. If you need a reference for a good trainer just ask. We have a lot of members in your area. :)

[dmoniz]

Another idea would be to teach your dog to pull a cart. Logan gets groceries with me and sometimes I put the minpin in the cart to pull around. I get all sorts of smiles and positive comments when the neighborhood people see him. We also train at the Fremont AKC club for obedience and rally (there are 3 other rotties and one rottie mix), we train in pecadero for herding, and in Newark for schutzhund. He doesn't get much socialization at the schutzhund club because he is there to work, but I am bringing my nervy boxer there just to be around people and get socialization.

Downtown San Carlos is a great place to take dogs for socialization, very dog friendly and lots of outdoor eating areas. I do get some of the avoidance your are experiencing. My friend's bernese mountain dog gets a ton of attention even though he is 4 inches taller and full of fluffy hair, he looks huge! Logan just sits paciently wiggling hoping for at least a pat or even a look in his direction. Then a couple will walk by who used to have a rottie and suddenly the berner doesn't exist :)

[derektjeep]

What kind of trainer would advocate a muzzle? Are we supposed to pay $ to someone who would advocate muzzling a Rottweiler. I mean, I would find plenty of people on the street who would use their freedom of speech to voice that you should muzzle a Rottweiler. Hey, here is an idea? How about finding a trainer that actually KNOWS what he/she is doing with a Rottweiler? If not, get the book " Rottweiler for Dummies". $ and time will be put to a better use.