Sch lines or Ch lines??

[Tony4Rotts]

I am puzzled for i am not sure whether to purchase a rott pup from a breeder that has dogs with a ch background or from one with strictly working and maybe some show. I am primarily lookin for a pup to work and maybe later on show. For i am not into being cooped up in a ring and going in circles to show off what i have. That would be fine later down the road after my pup gets a BH,AD,Sch1,2,3. I may even try it during, but if my pup doesn't take to showing then its her perrogative. As for working i know if i play my cards right and buy from a great breeder then the pup will be doing what comes natural. For i believe the rottie is first and foremost a "True Working Dog"!

[Liz]

Tony, if you want to do SchH, buy a dog from a SchH background, i.e., at least one parent, three out of four grandparents and six out of eight great-grandparents titled to SCH3. Otherwise you're setting yourself and the dog up for a whole lot of headaches and heartaches.

If you're not sure about your commitment to SchH, then buy a good dog from a breeding in which the parents have working titles, SchH, AKC, whatever, in addition to show ratings or CH's.

And remember, there are no guarantees for working ability. Over the years, I've owned three puppies out of SCH3 sires and SCH1 dams whose grandparents were all SCH3. One of them developed HD, the other two washed out in SchH - one was too hectic to do the protection work or the tracking, the other had no interest in protection - she went into avoidance.

Don't place too many expectations on a puppy, http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif

Liz

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www.inxpress.net/~harkon/
harkon@inxpress.net

[Maggie]

Hi Toni,As a rottweiler fanatic, when breeding I am always striving for both,excellent conformation and excellent character and this is very hard to do. I dont beleive people should be breeding just for one or the other,we should be breeding for the ultimate all round dog. You may get a great working dog and then be really dissapointed as he dosent shape up in the conformation ring and vice-versa. Look for a breeder who's goals are to acheive both.Regards Maggie

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Maggie Murray
Rottweiler Specialist Judge
New Zealand

[Liz]

Just a clarification. I didn't mean to imply that a SchH titled dog cannot have good conformation, or that conformation should be ignored in favor of working ability.

I was responding to Tony's stated desire to have a dog that is capable of achieving a SCH3. There are VERY VERY few rottweilers out of non-SchH titled ancestors (1st three generations) who are capable of this level of work.

While they do exist, odds of finding one are slim to none. Even in breedings planned for SchH working ability, not all puppies will achieve that level, so in a breeding which is not specifically planned for SchH working ability you have even less of a chance.

Therefore, if you *truly* want to train and title in SchH, you need to find a puppy who comes from titled parents and ancestors, or you greatly reduce your chances of achieving anything in the sport with the dog.

Liz

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www.inxpress.net/~harkon/
harkon@inxpress.net

[Tony4Rotts]

Maggie,

I totally agree with you and don't get me wrong i would love to get a pup that has it both. Excellent conformation dog as well as working. My goal is to just find a breeder who may at least have a prospect for me and can be honest. Also i would love to have a relationship with my breeder and always have that connection and feeling that the breeder is always there to help me out!

[Tony4Rotts]

Liz,

I agree with you 100% and am going to take your advice and will purchase a rottie pup from a breeder who has bred a male and female from a working class pedigree as well as having conformation work being a plus!

[Michele Baxter]

Just to add my$0.02...Liz is exactly correct with everything she stated. But remember there is a REASON these dogs are bred for conf. and that is to be able to do the job for which they are bred. If a dog doesn't have correct structure then obviously it cannot perform it's intended job. So your best hope as stated above is to find the best of both worlds-beauty with brains! Good Luck as this is something many people spend years striving to do!

[German Vanegas]

Tony,
I concur with your criteria entirely. First and foremost the Rottweiler is a working dog, that it's how originally it was bred for, and still it's expected to be bred for. Obviously, conformation structure is also very important, to obtain the best performance possible, but primarily I look for the working background in the dog, expecting high marks there. In short, if I have to choose between an outstanding working Rottie with a few minor faults, that may not qualify it for show quality, OR a "perfect" or "near-perfect" conformation Rottie with little, or none, working abilities; I rather take the working one anytime. And again, proper conformation is desired, of course. As far as show rings are concerned, they are fine for those that like it. It's just that to me, real working dogs are what I personally enjoy the most, particularly sport and protection trials. That it's all: a matter of PERSONAL preference.

[Tony4Rotts]

Well German i am proud to know that there is somone else out there that sees what i mean when it comes to a rottie that you want everyone to say "ooh and ahh!" over as for me i think first and foremost i want a working dog that enjoys doing this type of work instead of worrying too much about is his coat shiny enough for the judges. Not to knock anyone out there into showing because i too want to take a crack at that area too. But my preference and everyone is entitled to their own opinion but mine is to have a dog to work with for isn't that what the rottie is a "Working Dog". And before anyone responds saying that conformation plays a big part on how the dog works, i totally agree however i too would probably want a working dog with character rather than having a show prospect with no drive!

[German Vanegas]

Amen, Tony.

[Maggie]

Hi Toni,yes I understand where you are coming from. Your question is Ch or working lines??
As I stated before, anyone who is truly passionate and dedicated and who truly UNDERSTANDS the character of this breed will be breeding for the all purpose dog. I personally dont breed for just the comformation ring, I breed for both. Which means they look typical,they have all the desired drives and they go out there saying HEY LOOK AT ME,IM THE GREATEST THING ON 4 LEGS. Now I dont disagree that there are people who breed just for the all breeds ring,but dont put everyone in that catergory,there are people who understand the all purpose dog and who wont settle for anything less. When breeding you should be trying to acheive a dog that is typey(which means you couldnt miss him for a Rottweiler) and of course temperament. I agree that alot of show Rotts lack in temperament,but there are also alot of Rotts working that look un-typical. If you do your homework properly Im sure you can find a breeder who wants to acheive both.

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Maggie Murray
Rottweiler Specialist Judge
New Zealand

[Tony4Rotts]

Maggie, you must of misunderstood me for i am not looking for a rottie to work and not be correct in standards. I want a rottie for work/show but i am more concerned with working my rottie as opposed to running to the show ring to say look what i got. For i am not here to show and tell my rottie. I would rather use the breed for what it was bred for. Would you also try and tame a lion and take away its wildness and say lets show this lion and take away from it what it was put on this earth to do which is roar!! Don't get me wrong for i do want a rottie that has been bred for conformation/working.
My personal preference as i'm sure german will agree is to have a "working rottie" first and if it doesn't work out i then can maybe try herding, carting, tracking ect.. for i believe the rottie is first and foremost a working breed. So to recap i would like my rottie to possess an excellent temperament as well as character. And of course looks because hey, if it doesn't look like a rottie, have an outstanding character and temperament then it is not a rottie!! For i want a rottie with calm self-assurance with boldness and fearlessness. But don't get me wrong a rottweiler. Should not be neither nervous or aggressive, but should have a natural guarding instinct. "Calm gait should indicate good humor". As stated in the Ultimate Rottweiler!!!

[This message has been edited by Tony4Rotts (edited February 16, 1999).]

[Alison]

Tony4Rotts i gess you are going to do herding with your rottweiler for that is what it was breed for in the first place. that is working by the way first i never ever will give up the dogs confermation for anthing for if you breed for just working drives
then the dog will change go for the overall dog and dont shop blind
german tell me falco vd teufelsbrucka
is he working lines or show lines ???


[This message has been edited by Alison (edited February 17, 1999).]

[Tony4Rotts]

Alison,
Yes the rottweiler was first orginally used as a herder for cattle and to protect the drover and the cash. And for those who need me to clarify: I am not looking for a rottie with only schuthund backround with no kind of conformation for i too care about the way a rottie looks, that is why i am searching for a breeder that has both and can help me out with more indepth questions. So Alison you may want a rottie with conformation but my prefernce is to have both. For let's not forget that the rottie is in the working class!

[Alison]

Tony4Rotts i am one person that intends to breed for the overall dog . and do look at the dogs indevidual temperment to im not saying that i dont look at temperment at all for that is one thing that is vary inportent to me to but you will never see one of my dogs in the sh ring that will be breedable that is not to my confermational standerd
but you might see one of my pet qualty dogs there if the oners intend to do that
but you will be seing at lest one of my show
dogs in the sh ring . there is a big mith that people in the confermation ring dont look at the temperment, drives and that is what it is a mith for i no alot of good breeders that show in confermation. they look at the temperment ,drives vary vary closly just because they dont have time to do both or chose to just do confermation dosnot mean that there dogs dont have it for sh work but most of the people that i no in confermation showing
look at the over all dogs for you do need thouse drives to be able to show in confermation shows to ..

ps all dogs have falts

[This message has been edited by Alison (edited February 17, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Alison (edited February 17, 1999).]