Sch lines or Ch lines??

[Tony4Rotts]

Alison,
I am just saying that it seems that when i emphasize that the rottie is a working breed it seems to alarm alot of people who prefer this breed just be used for conformation and that's it. I have my preference and no one will acknowledge the fact that i also want a dog that has a sound temperament, been bred to standards, and can do what it was put on this earth for and thats to work! For i am not knocking conformation, i just have been researching books and have come to the same conclusion that all the author's have and that's the rottie is first a working dog. Whether your rottie is protecting the family, or herding cattle, shutzhund, protection work, ect.. Maybe German breeders have what i want when it comes to standards for they are the one's who issue the ZTP, and Korung, This is what i need to research more into will get back with you later!

[belgium]

what abouth this line,father,grandfather,and his father.schh3 and champion

[Michele Baxter]

Belgium-sounds like a great line! I agree with Alison about the myth of show dogs. It seems that a lot of people think a dog with great beauty has no working ability, when in fact, they just haven't been trained. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that every show dog has great working ability, but most just tend to concentrate on one area. You've heard the saying "Jack of all trades-master of none." There are great breeders of beautiful conformation dogs that are the best at producing correct conformation dogs, but are not properly trained to do Sch. with their dogs. I myself feel very comforable in the conformation ring, but would not know where to begin with Sch. training. Granted, I know how to properly train my dogs in basic obedience, but beyond that I would leave it to a professional. With campaigning a dog nationally, you don't have the hours in the day to train for additional sports. It becomes a give and take. Everyone has their personal preference as stated, and that's what makes the rottweiler so appealing to so many different owners. Choose what makes you happy and enjoy your dog!

[CarolineS]

When I see "working" defined on this board, for the most part I see SchH, tracking, and protection mentioned, all pretty physical endeavours. Would you not agree that obedience and therapy dogs are also working dogs? This is work that emphasizes another part of the breed temperament standards, "basically friendly and peaceable, well-trainable and willing to work", and "good natured, placid and fond of children, devoted, obedient, biddable and eager to work". Work is work to a dog, I'm sure, and the physical nature of SchH and the slightly more cerebral nature of Therapy work probably make no difference to the dog. It's still doing a job. And what of us who own dogs whose sole job is to be a pet. Are they less of a Rottweiler because the only part of the standard they happen to fulfill is that of being a companion and watchdog. Some of us don't have the talent, time, or inclination to show in any recognized event and test their dog's abilities as "working dogs". Should we not own Rotties? Do you feel we're doing the breed a disservice by owning one of these dogs and not "working" it? I occasionally get the impression from some on this board that only "physical" endeavours that emphasize the dog's fearless nature are appreciated. What about the other parts of it's temperament that make it such a great dog?

I rode for most of my life and never felt my quarter horse was any less of a quarter horse because I chose not to herd cows or race him. My thoroughbred was not fast enough to race successfully, but today he is making a top three-day eventer. My Appaloosa had never seen an Indian in her life! The point I guess I'm trying to make is that the world is changing and it is just not possible for all animals to do exactly what they were bred for. I really feel there is a place for every type of Rottie (SchH, conformation, obedience, CGC, tracking, or just fantastic family dog) in this world.

[This message has been edited by CarolineS (edited February 17, 1999).]

[Tony4Rotts]

Michele and CarolineS I agree with both of you entirely. And i also want to get into pet therapy, CGC, you name it I want to try it So me and my new rottie pup will be quite busy. It just seems that if i say i want a rottie for show then i wouldn't get a lot of flack, just because i said i want to work more than show does that mean i don't want a rottie for conformation? Of course not looks are just important to me as to the average show novice. And no i won't put any high expectations on my rottie for if i don't get to a sh3, or any other kind of rigorous training then i can honestly say that we tried. Part of life is trying and for those who are good at showing, working, obedience et.. I only hope i can come here for lots of advice and you don't try to stir me from my goal! CarolineS i am with you when it comes to the rotties temperament and character i am probably the biggest fan however i do tend to look at a rotties physical aspect and give a gracious compliment to whoever accomplished such a beautiful breeding. I also agree that a working rottie can be for example bedience, pet therapy, or anything as long as you keep your rottie happy and not tie up this magnificent breed to a pole in the backyard!!(By the way i saw a rottie yesterday tied on a porch at some mobile home park, it almost made me sick!!)

[This message has been edited by Tony4Rotts (edited February 17, 1999).]

[Vicky]

I have gone to alot of local shows and a few herding events. I asked a lot of questions about showing and doing obedience work.
There were handlers who did have Ch. title, and CD or herding titles too. I know some of them enter two or three events a weekend. Training your dog takes real commitment. I think you could put a CH title and Sch title on your dog but it will be work.
There is also some expense to showing your dog. Most good breeder will tell you, that they can get you a dog that will get you there but it is all up to you.
Vicky

[Maggie]

Well Toni,you have managed very nicely to get everyone going on this subject. Your original question was ?Do I buy from CH lines or working lines? and you seem to have distracted from that original question,in fact you have quite blatantly made abit of a mockery of people who show their dogs with "shiny" coats? I think over-all you have been given excellent advice from everyone and are just missing the POINT,there should never be show-versa's working. We all know what the Rottweiler was bred to do(which was the all purpose dog who could do anything you asked of him) Yes they should have the disired drives,but they have to have the correct conformation to do the job as well. Its everyones choice to do what they enjoy,weather thats showing or sch or herding or just having a wonderful family companion. I think you should just take the great advice you have been given and get on with the job of looking for that all -purpose puppy.?Do you know?the breeder breeds the dog,buts its the owner who makes the dog.

------------------
Maggie Murray
Rottweiler Specialist Judge
New Zealand

[Tony4Rotts]

Maggie, by all means i am taking everyone's advice. For my ultimate goal is to find a breeder like yourself who breeds for both conformation as well as good drives. So i just wanted to say that people are assuming i am attacking them but really i just wanted to know what kind of breeder should i go to, one with alot of conformation or mostly work/show. Liz pretty much answered the question and many other replies put words in my mouth by saying that i am putting everyone into categories. For i am not i just asked a question and had Liz answer it earlier now it seems that you are just throwing gasoline on a fire!

[belgium]

when you would be looking for a dog , you would have to visit breeders and see there dogs,not talk about it on computer

[belgium]

when you would be looking for a dog , you would have to visit breeders and see there dogs,not talk about it on computer

[Alison]

magg and belgium i totally agree with both of you i have re read this hole post,Tony4Rotts
you are new to the breed and when you finely get your perfect dog you will see what it takes to do just one of what you
want to do .
for i no just to keep my dogs in shape for confirmation shows its allot of time for me its 8 hrs a day then work then sleep and
not to forget the cost of entering shows travel and hotel, and im not even campaigning yet
what people here in that show in confirmation really hate is when some one states that the dogs we show don't have the
correct temperaments for working and i clearly stated that that was a myth , so maggy was nt throwing gas on the fire she was
just stating the facts ,for its a given that we breed for the overall dog ,,and don't for get all rottweilers have faults....
also by categorizing us confirmation people for breeding just for the confirmation, is really insulting to us for most of us look at
the drives and temperaments of awer dogs closely WE BREED FOR THE OVERALL DOG . e.g. for instance i love
confirmation and seger shows my bitches show in that but one of my bitches sister is going on her sh and doing vary well in it
.that doesn't make my bitch better than her or opposite, maggy i give to credit for holding back gold medal to you lol


German stated if I have to choose between an outstanding working Rottie with a few minor faults, that may not qualify it for show quality, OR a "perfect" or "near-perfect"
conformation Rottie with little, or none, working abilities; I rather take the working one
IF A DOG HAS FALTS THAT DISQUALLIFY IT FROM CONFERMATION SHOWS ,ITS NOT BREEDABLE
THAT IS A MAJOR FALT NOT A MINER FALT .EVERY DOG HAS FALTS, AND THE DOG WILL FALE THE ZTP
WITH OUT GOING INTO THE RING,

[This message has been edited by Alison (edited February 18, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Alison (edited February 18, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Alison (edited February 18, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Alison (edited February 18, 1999).]

[Tony4Rotts]

Alison once again it seems you would like to put word into my mouth. I never said that conformation breeders only breed for conformation. And I have never said that showing is work or doesn't take time. Once again these defensive statements you guys are making seems to be within yourselves. NEver read into what you don't see. And that is all i will say on this subject for it seems all you want to do is attack me instead of guide and answer questions. For i am tired of people placing words in my mouth. I want to do both show/work if i do show great and if i do work great, If i decide to do both excellent. For no matter what you say i will not give up on conformation as well as sh work!!! Belgium good point what is your email address!!

[Tony4Rotts]

My advice for the attackers is to re-read this thread to understand where this conversation went. When i stated about the shiny coat, I also implied that i was not taking a crack at anybody or (insulting anyone for those who would put words in my mouth) For i also stated that i too am a novice looking to get in the show/working ring. Is that a bad thing or can't i just get positive advice on showing and working!!

[CarolineS]

Tony4Rotts,

In my last post, where I referred to all the horses I've owned, I forgot to mention one. The "high horse". I do still climb on it occasionally! You know what it's like when you have a captive audience. I admit some of us here can be a pretty mouthy bunch, but most of it is done in the spirit of good debate. Hope we haven't put you off. I think that we are all so passionate about our breed we get carried away sometimes. We nearly always kiss and make up at the end of the thread, for if we don't the moderator closes us down.

[German Vanegas]

Tony,
This issue will never be understood by fanatical people that do not respect other's people preferences and opinions. In other words, you and I will always be "wrong" for those kind of people, because is their "way or no way" type of reasoning. Alison for instance, believes that since I don't breed or show dogs, I don't "know" much about dogs!! She is always challenging me because I don't show in Sieger... Which again, it's ONLY her opinion.

We should keep in mind that the idea of this board, is to share information and opinions, but as far as pretending to imposse one's opinion as "the true Gospel", it will always be debatable, no matter what. We will find people with oppossite ideas. Who's right and who's wrong? You make your own decisions based on your knowledge and experience, and don't get so personal to convince the rest of the people about what you think is "right".

I, as well as Tony, do believe in structural conformation as a very important part of the Rottweiler, but working traits are a priority for Tony and I; so what's the problem with that?

By the way, the working traits issue has never been (and I have never ever said it, not even once) only about schutzhund or protection work. Working has a wide spectrum of traits and meaning.

The bottom line is, if you enjoy the show ring, my sincere congratulations! That's your prerrogative... However, I enjoy other dog sports and performance rings and trials. Just because I don't care about showing dogs, that doesn't make me an ignorant about dog issues... I respect your right to do what you like best with your dogs; would you let Tony and I follow suit and do the same, please?

[This message has been edited by German Vanegas (edited February 18, 1999).]