Who is at fault here?

[drdome99]

Ok to set this up I live up in a rural area where we have approximately 6 acres, our backyard is fenced in. The front yard is open but very large with no other houses near by. The other day I was out front washing my car and Brock, my 16 month old rotti, was out in the front hanging around with me. A couple of the neighbors came up out of the woods and were walking across our property with their two dogs (one on a leash one not). Brock was cautious at first but then walked up to them and they stopped to say hi to him. He went up to the first dog with his tail wagging and sniffed him then moved on to the other dog with his tail wagging. The second dog then decides to snap at him and Brock grabs the dog by the neck and pins it to the ground. I immediately ran over and was able to pull him off the dog. The lady was a little shook up but her husband laughed and said "that will teach him"

Nothing really happened and they weren't mad because they were on our property and we each had a dog off leash. But say the dog had gotten injured and they wanted to come after us, would they have anything to stand on in that situation?

I'm assuming this is a co-fault situation. Brock should have been on a leash and they shouldn't have been walking on our property with a dog off-leash.

[WendiS]

Now, this is just my own interpretation of what your describing, but it seems to me a dog has the right to be in his own yard off leash. If you were in town, higher chance of foot traffic past the unfenced front yard then your dog should be on a leash. In the scenario you are describing two dogs, trespassed on your property and one of them snapped at your dog when he came to investigate. I'm glad your dog wasn't hurt especially considering his youth but those people and their dogs had no business on your property and from their response it sounds as though they understood that. If this happened on my property or to my dog I would not consider it a co-fault situation and in fact had their dog hurt mine in any way there would have been hell to pay.
Now that's just my take on the thing and maybe not the final and everlasting truth by any means.
Wendi

[ElsasFamily]

It's a shame that a person cannot be out on their own property w/out people trespassing. What were they thinking?

Here's a link I found. There seems to be some gray areas w/the dog laws.
http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/s...law_10_619.htm

[observer]

Well, actually, under most leash laws, a dog being in his own unfenced front yard off a leash is still a no-no. Don't know what the legal situation is where you are.

But, what they did was equally wrong, if not more so, by being away from home, on someone ELSE'S private property, with a dog off leash. I know it's a rural area, but still.... If my memory of such legal things serves, the people aren't "trespassing" unless your property has posted signs or you tell them to leave. That still doesn't make it right.

[WendiS]

Here's a link I found. There seems to be some gray areas w/the dog laws.
http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/s...law_10_619.htm[/quote]


If I understand what I'm reading (I didn't read the entire law) then it seems to support my thinking that a dog is allowed to be on it's own property, not be on a leash and if it does harm another dog while on it's own property then it is not considered a "dangerous" dog...Right?

[WendiS]

Originally Posted by observer

Well, actually, under most leash laws, a dog being in his own unfenced front yard off a leash is still a no-no. Don't know what the legal situation is where you are.

But, what they did was equally wrong, if not more so, by being away from home, on someone ELSE'S private property, with a dog off leash. I know it's a rural area, but still.... If my memory of such legal things serves, the people aren't "trespassing" unless your property has posted signs or you tell them to leave. That still doesn't make it right.

I think I really disagree with the idea that the trespassers were "equally wrong" mostly because that implies that the home owner and his dog were somehow wrong for simply being outside in their own yard, leash or not. Now, I live in town, my front yard is unfenced and I personally could not have my dogs in front, off leash because they would be a complete nuisance to anyone walking past. Not aggressive, but a friendly nuisance is still a nuisance. But 20 miles away, where I grew up, is a situation similar to the one described and I just can't see how in a rural setting with very little foot traffic a person can be in their own yard, minding their own business and be at fault when someone else comes tromping through your back yard and your dog investigates.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by drdome99

Ok to set this up I live up in a rural area where we have approximately 6 acres, our backyard is fenced in. The front yard is open but very large with no other houses near by. The other day I was out front washing my car and Brock, my 16 month old rotti, was out in the front hanging around with me. A couple of the neighbors came up out of the woods and were walking across our property with their two dogs (one on a leash one not). Brock was cautious at first but then walked up to them and they stopped to say hi to him. He went up to the first dog with his tail wagging and sniffed him then moved on to the other dog with his tail wagging. The second dog then decides to snap at him and Brock grabs the dog by the neck and pins it to the ground. I immediately ran over and was able to pull him off the dog. The lady was a little shook up but her husband laughed and said "that will teach him"

Nothing really happened and they weren't mad because they were on our property and we each had a dog off leash. But say the dog had gotten injured and they wanted to come after us, would they have anything to stand on in that situation?

I'm assuming this is a co-fault situation. Brock should have been on a leash and they shouldn't have been walking on our property with a dog off-leash.

I think you were more at fault for letting your dog (off leash) go up to unknown and unpredictable dogs, whether it's on your property or not since you let your dog approach them to "say hi".

[Mochasmom]

My thought exactly Skip.
Why let your dog approach them if you don't know them or their dogs?
If I was upset that there were trespassers on my land I wouldn't be letting my dog approach for an off leash meet and greet I would be pointing out that they were on private property and that I didn't approve of their using it while keeping my dog close to me.

[laurlitt]

With a breed like ours we always have to be cautious... that's a given. I live on 10 acres and w/ hardly any fencing... I rarely allow my dogs loose in the yard (mostly b/c I worry about bunnies)... but also b/c you never know when a farm dog may come up to our property...

That being said, I believe that you are NOT at fault b/c you were on your property and you shouldn't have to leash your dog on your property. Had real damage been done, I'm afraid that they could still cause some trouble for you.

[moondog]

The concept of "who's property" this was on is as meaningless to me as it is to a dog. Anyone with a dog that they cannot control in an area where other dogs or people have access, is the one at fault.

[laurlitt]

Originally Posted by Skip

I think you were more at fault for letting your dog (off leash) go up to unknown and unpredictable dogs, whether it's on your property or not since you let your dog approach them to "say hi".

IMO, it still doesn't change the fact that this is HER property and the dog can be wherever it wants... It's like the burgulars who sue when they break in and get bit by the dog inside the house... WTF?

What if a person had an electric fence (the buried kind) on their property and the dog stayed contained in the boundaries at all times (I personally don't like them, but I know they can work) and these same dogs came wandering thru and an incident happened... Again... MY property and there are trespassers...

Disclaimer: I still think it's a 100% priority to make sure these incidents don't happen, but I'd like to think the law would be on my side if people were on my property.

[observer]

WendiS-- to the extent it makes a difference, these people and dogs were crossing the front of the OPs property, not the back.

I have to agree with Skip and with moondog-- I don't let my leashed dog go up to other strange leashed and/or unleashed dogs to say "Hi", on of off my property. I encounter people with dogs off leash in the "research park" area where I take mine for walks. If I see a dog off leash, even closely attended by its owner, we turn around and go the other way. I am very cautious about introductions even when every dog is ON a leash.

As far as not having to leash your dog on your own property, well, it depends at a minimum on what the law requires. If there are no legal restraints, such as in some more rural areas, then you have to consider all sorts of other factors about your dog and your neighborhood and what the potential risks are before you decide to let him or her "hang out" in an unfenced front (or back) yard with you.

[drdome99]

Ok to explain this a little better these were not complete strangers but neighbors who we somewhat know but the dogs have never met before.

I agree that I should not have let Brock go up to them and avoided the situation all together. I guess I wasn't worried about him going up to the dogs because they were both older and small non-aggressive breeds so I just assumed they would sniff and be on their way. Assumptions always get people in trouble though.

On a side-note we have not seen them using our yard as a walking path since that incident, heh.

[TrishB]

My understanding is that legally speaking, your dog, as long as it is on your property, does not have to be leashed. Your neighbours were trespassing (fault #1), their dogs should have been leashed while off their property (fault #2). So legally - they don't have a leg to stand on.

However, as others have pointed out, it probably wasn't a good idea to let the dogs meet like that. It wasn't the best decision, but you were completely in your legal rights (legal doesn't necessarily mean moral or 'best judgement').

Now if their dog was injured, it's up to you if you want to help them out. i.e. if you pay for any vet bills, they'll take it as admitting guilt. However, to keep the peace with your neighbours (which lets face it, could be YEARS long), maybe a friendly phone call checking up on them would be in order.

[HerculesMomma]

Just keep in mind too, if you've got the dog out front off leash and the feet hit the sidewalk (if you have one out in the rural area) then that becomes public property. If no sidewalk - than the street is public property.

At least this is the law in my area. The dog can be off leash on private property.

My law also stipulates that the dog must be under reasonable control by the owner while on the property. So if you don't have the dog leashed, you better have some verbal control over the dog to keep it from greeting people and/or leaving the property.

Personally, if your dog did something to their dog I think you still could be liable. You did not point out to these people that they were tresspassing and did not ask them to leave your property - quite the opposite. You stopped and greeted them. So this may open you up legal liability. You'd have to ask and attorney to be sure.

I don't think property laws are as cut and dry as people might believe. Why else do we have homeowners insurance? Why can someone sue you if they slip and fall on the sidewalk you didn't shovel (which is public property too!)? If a child drowns in your pool, trespassing or not, you can get sued.

So if you are really interested in knowing the answer to your question, I would call an attorney to find out.