What’s A Mental Test???

[damp]

GOOD temperament tests put dogs under extreme stress (all unknown situations and NOT trained or prepared for) for about an hour. It’s in stress situations you test a dog's temperament (how it reacts… fear, aggression, fight, evasion or escaping and last but not least how it recovers from the stress) and NOT in secure and well known surroundings!!!

What do you consider a proper mental test?

Can you TEST a dog, if it’s not put under stress?
Can you TEST a dog, if it already knows or has been introduced/trained to behave to the “scaring” man, umbrella etc.

Is a mental test about how obedient a dog is in a certain situation or how it by nature will react to same situation?

Is it about HOW MUCH stress a dog can bear and still react appropriate to the situation and recover???

[poohbearsmom]

These are excellent questions, damp - I'll reply tomorrow with some examples of the different types of temperament tests that are performed here in the US.

What's your temperament test like in Denmark?

[Judi W]

I was privileged to observe several dogs go through the Danish Mental Test and believe it is the best of any and all. (When Aage was here in the US). When we developed the RCT for the American Rottweiler Club, (which was subsequently disallowed by the AKC because of the protection phase) we included as many elements of the Danish test as we could and make it portable as needed in our very large geography.

My answers: A weak dog will reveal itself regardless of training. An educated dog (which we would hope all dogs are) will of course do better than an uneducated dog, but training does not disguise weak character. Recovery is a primary thing to look at, but the knee jerk response is also critical! An exagerated response for what is presented, even if recovered, is not appropriate.

By neglect, a good dog can be turned into a poor dog, however a poor dog cannot be trained into being a solid dog regardless of training, it can simply be managed within its limitation.

[damp]

Originally Posted by poohbearsmom

What's your temperament test like in Denmark?

In Denmark we have 3 tests to grade a dogs temperament… a puppy test at 7 weeks, a young dog test (litter mental test) and a mental test.

The last test is also a part of the Danish Rottweiler Club’s “quality mark” for breeding, besides a judgment of the conformation and 5 kilometres bicycling (If a dog has completed all 3 tests you will see a leitmotif.)

Bear in mind no dogs are trained for that test (it would be considered cheating)

Here is a short description of the mental test, (with a little reservation for the distances and times)

The test takes place in a forest. The owner is not allowed to help or say anything to the dog. (Only obedience-trained dogs are allowed to get the command “free” when the leash is taken of) The owner is allowed to praise the dog after each part of the test, when the judge gives a signal. After each part, the dog must take contact to the helpers/figures. The test takes about 1 –1 ½ hour. It depends of, how much time the dog needs to calm down/recover after each part in the test.

1. Presentation of the dog, owner and breeder.

2. Contact, sociability.
The dog and owner walk around the spectators.

3. The pleasure of play.
The tester walks with the dog on leash. Then he plays with the dog (of leash) with a ball and later with a sack.

4. Curiosity
“Rattling in the wood.” After 1 min. the leash is taken of.

5. Prey drive.
A rag is drawn in zigzag movements. When the rag lies steady the leash is taken of.

6. Bonds.
The tester holds the dog and the owner runs away into the wood and hides. The spectators go in front of the dog and after 1 min. the tester lets the dog run.

(Now the test really starts to separate the sheep from the goats)

7. Bonds.
5 figures painted like soldiers with very big starring eyes are placed with 2-3 metres distance, and # 6. is lying down. The same procedure as in number 6. When the dog is 2 metres in front the lying figure, the tester draws a rope and the figure is set up in a second just in front of the dog.


8. Surprise.
The owner walks with the dog on leash. 2 metres in front of the dog, a boiler suit is quickly thrown up from the grown. The leash is taken of the dog.

9. Noise.
The owner walks with the dog on leash. 2 metres besides the dog a heavy chain is dropped on a plate of metal. The leash is taken of the dog.

10.”Pearl teeth”
A helper is dressed in waterproof cape, sunglasses and a back turned cap. With showing teeth, he is walking like a big bird toward the dog. 3 steps forward, waving arms and stamping feet, then turning sideways for a few seconds and then forwards and so on until 2 metres in front of the dog. The leash is taken of the dog.

11. The sledge.
A soldier figure placed on a sledge, dressed in jacket and painted with very glaring eyes, as big as cups, is slowly and without stops thrown towards the dog. 2 metres in front of the dog it stops, and the leash is taken of the dog.

12. The ghosts.
Two helpers dressed like ghosts, with big black eyes, are walking from left and right, by turns, towards the dog. 2 metres in front of the dog the ghosts stop. The leash is taken of the dog.

13. Shot.
The tester and dog play with a sack while shooting. The owner stands with the dog off leash while shooting.


In part 2-6 of the test, the judges are grading: the dogs willingness, engagement in play and co-operation, curiosity, willingness to search and bond of the pack. In the last part they grade: the inclination to answer and to challenge, behaviour of fights, the inclination to dominate, the willingness to protect and the ability to stop invaders, the ability to act while shooting and to ignore shots, the inclination to flee from scaring experiences, the ability to act suitable in relation to the experience, conflicts, the ability to keep the interest and finish an act, to concentrate, the ability to calm down, the ability to involvement, the energy and the drives.

After such a day the dog sleeps well.

The min. age to this test is 2 years. The test is passed or failed, just as the conformation/exterior and bicycling.

Besides this, the breeding council evaluates the dog and it’s ancestors, (health, HD, teeth, bite faults, working/showing titles etc. etc.) The dog has to pass each part to get the graduation: Breed selected.

(In the young dog/ litter mental test (8 months (I think) – 18 months) the whole litter, if possible, are tested the same day. This test doesn’t give any graduation, or pass/fail. The test is a “tool” to the breeders. Are they breeding right?
The young dogs mental test is reduced. The dog has to go through 1-2-3-5-6-8-9-12 and 13 as described above and a judgement of conformation. No bicycling. Each dog gets it’s owns evaluation and the whole litter a joint description.)

No doubt, if a dog passes this test, it has a good temperament, and I would never buy a pup from ancestors not passing this test, but also see them doing bite work or at least ask knowledge people who have seen that.
But even with such test, the discussions here are very heated now. Many people (including myself) find it very important also to add a bite test into the ordinary mental test. Sadly enough, many people don’t find the bite test necessary, but most of the “working dog people “ do.

Originally Posted by JudiW

(When Aage was here in the US)

I had the great pleasure to meet Aage Christensen in person several times. He suddently died some years ago... not only did his dear family... but also the ROTTWEILERS miss and lost a great and knowlegde MENTOR

[damp]

Originally Posted by poohbearsmom

What's your temperament test like in Denmark?

In Denmark we have 3 tests to grade a dogs temperament… a puppy test at 7 weeks, a young dog test (litter mental test) and a mental test.

The last test is also a part of the Danish Rottweiler Club’s “quality mark” for breeding, besides a judgment of the conformation and 5 kilometres bicycling (If a dog has completed all 3 tests you will see a leitmotif.)

Bear in mind no dogs are trained for that test (it would be considered cheating)

Here is a short description of the mental test, (with a little reservation for the distances and times)

The test takes place in a forest. The owner is not allowed to help or say anything to the dog. (Only obedience-trained dogs are allowed to get the command “free” when the leash is taken of) The owner is allowed to praise the dog after each part of the test, when the judge gives a signal. After each part, the dog must take contact to the helpers/figures. The test takes about 1 –1 ½ hour. It depends of, how much time the dog needs to calm down/recover after each part in the test.

1. Presentation of the dog, owner and breeder.

2. Contact, sociability.
The dog and owner walk around the spectators.

3. The pleasure of play.
The tester walks with the dog on leash. Then he plays with the dog (of leash) with a ball and later with a sack.

4. Curiosity
“Rattling in the wood.” After 1 min. the leash is taken of.

5. Prey drive.
A rag is drawn in zigzag movements. When the rag lies steady the leash is taken of.

6. Bonds.
The tester holds the dog and the owner runs away into the wood and hides. The spectators go in front of the dog and after 1 min. the tester lets the dog run.

(Now the test really starts to separate the sheep from the goats)

7. Bonds.
5 figures painted like soldiers with very big starring eyes are placed with 2-3 metres distance, and # 6. is lying down. The same procedure as in number 6. When the dog is 2 metres in front the lying figure, the tester draws a rope and the figure is set up in a second just in front of the dog.


8. Surprise.
The owner walks with the dog on leash. 2 metres in front of the dog, a boiler suit is quickly thrown up from the grown. The leash is taken of the dog.

9. Noise.
The owner walks with the dog on leash. 2 metres besides the dog a heavy chain is dropped on a plate of metal. The leash is taken of the dog.

10.”Pearl teeth”
A helper is dressed in waterproof cape, sunglasses and a back turned cap. With showing teeth, he is walking like a big bird toward the dog. 3 steps forward, waving arms and stamping feet, then turning sideways for a few seconds and then forwards and so on until 2 metres in front of the dog. The leash is taken of the dog.

11. The sledge.
A soldier figure placed on a sledge, dressed in jacket and painted with very glaring eyes, as big as cups, is slowly and without stops thrown towards the dog. 2 metres in front of the dog it stops, and the leash is taken of the dog.

12. The ghosts.
Two helpers dressed like ghosts, with big black eyes, are walking from left and right, by turns, towards the dog. 2 metres in front of the dog the ghosts stop. The leash is taken of the dog.

13. Shot.
The tester and dog play with a sack while shooting. The owner stands with the dog off leash while shooting.


In part 2-6 of the test, the judges are grading: the dogs willingness, engagement in play and co-operation, curiosity, willingness to search and bond of the pack. In the last part they grade: the inclination to answer and to challenge, behaviour of fights, the inclination to dominate, the willingness to protect and the ability to stop invaders, the ability to act while shooting and to ignore shots, the inclination to flee from scaring experiences, the ability to act suitable in relation to the experience, conflicts, the ability to keep the interest and finish an act, to concentrate, the ability to calm down, the ability to involvement, the energy and the drives.

After such a day the dog sleeps well.

The min. age to this test is 2 years. The test is passed or failed, just as the conformation/exterior and bicycling.

Besides this, the breeding council evaluates the dog and it’s ancestors, (health, HD, teeth, bite faults, working/showing titles etc. etc.) The dog has to pass each part to get the graduation: Breed selected.

(In the young dog/ litter mental test (8 months (I think) – 18 months) the whole litter, if possible, are tested the same day. This test doesn’t give any graduation, or pass/fail. The test is a “tool” to the breeders. Are they breeding right?
The young dogs mental test is reduced. The dog has to go through 1-2-3-5-6-8-9-12 and 13 as described above and a judgement of conformation. No bicycling. Each dog gets it’s owns evaluation and the whole litter a joint description.)

No doubt, if a dog passes this test, it has a good temperament, and I would never buy a pup from ancestors not passing this test, but also see them doing bite work or at least ask knowledge people who have seen that.
But even with such test, the discussions here are very heated now. Many people (including myself) find it very important also to add a bite test into the ordinary mental test. Sadly enough, many people don’t find the bite test necessary, but most of the “working dog people “ do.

Originally Posted by JudiW

(When Aage was here in the US)

I had the great pleasure to meet Aage Christensen in person several times. He suddently died some years ago... not only his dear family... but also the ROTTWEILER lost and miss a great and knowlegde MENTOR

[damp]

Here are some blurred pictures from a Young Dog Mental test of Carlos and his brother CoCo.

[damp]

and some more pictures.............

[Judi W]

I have the documentation of the test as well as the evaluation descriptions and reasoning. (hard copy and very old and faded). I also have someplace, a video of a complete test.

I fell in love with Aage for his knowlege, courtesy and self. I was privileged to co-judge with him at one time. He is a great loss.

The reason AKC disallowed our RCT was because of the protection portion (so I understand your discussion that is going on). We decided that absent a test for protection, we would not proceed with having the test at all. My reasoning in this is that without a dog strong enough to engage appropriately, I was not willing to state "correct Rottweiler character".

[damp]

Did I say (in an other thread) I hate abbreviations LOL… What does RCT means???

[Judi W]

yes, you did and I am sorry I fell into the abreviation. It referred to the Rottweiler Character Test that we developed for the American Rottweiler Club. It was a good test, carefully constructed, and had a very short life due to the AKC restrictions.

[poohbearsmom]

Thanks damp for taking your valuable time to translate all that! I know you've sent me this information before, but I thought it would be a real eye opener for many of the people on this board.

The ATTS (American Temperament Test Society) is the only established testing that we have here, that I'm aware of. This consists of several stations that the dog is strolled through. The dogs are walked on lead through the entire test, although no talking to the dog, giving commands or any other direct communication (leash correction, etc..) are to be given.
The dog and handler are to walk through this test as if on a 'sunday afternoon lazy stroll'....


1. Neutral Stranger - stranger approaches dog and handler, and speaks to handler, shaking hands while ignoring dog. (how does the dog react?)

2. Friendly Stranger - stranger approaches dog and handler, speaking to dog and encouraging dog to say hello. (how does the dog react?)

3. The Bucket - helper is behind a blind, and rattles a pail full of nuts and bolts, comes out of the blind and places bucket on the ground about 6 feet in front of the dog. (dog should approach bucket with curiousity and look inside)

4. Gunfire - gun fire from behind the blind as the dog approaches, two shots. (how does dog react?)

5. Umbrella - stranger sits in chair with umbrella facing outward parallel to the ground, when dog reaches 6 feet from umbrella, stranger pops it open... (how does dog react? dog should be curious and check out the umbrella, touching it is desirable)

6. Footing - two types of footing are tested... a plastic tarp is nailed into the ground, dog and handler both walk over this... an expen is nailed into the ground, dog passes over, while handler walks beside the metal grate - (how does dog react to the funny feeling?)

7. Aggressive stranger - 'bad guy' dressed in trench coat, hat, sunglasses carrying a 6 foot staff staggers from blind sideways for several paces muttering to himself (how does dog react?). Bad guy turns and staggers towards the dog yelling and whacking stick on the ground (how does dog react?). Bad guy turns around and walks away. (how does dog react?) Bad guy turns around again and goes at dog yelling and whacking the ground and stops approx 6 feet in front of the dog. (how does dog react?)

This test is scored differently, depending upon the breed of dog (you wouldn't expect a toy poodle to react the same as a rottweiler to the bad guy, for instance).

If the dog fails at any one of the stations, the dog fails the test, but may retake the test after 6 months (if my memory serves me correctly). If the dog fails twice, that's it.

I'm sure that you're Danish test requires years of study and experience in order to evaluate. The ATTS test has a apprentice program in which one can volunteer as station 'personnel', and eventually work their way up to tester.

Other than that, there are several temperament tests that have been developed which are employed by shelters and rescue groups. I'd be interested in seeing what those entail as well, as they vary depending upon the facility or group. For those of you who perform these tests, what type of training is required before the dogs can be tested?

[Sargeant_C]

12. The ghosts.Two helpers dressed like ghosts, with big black eyes, are walking from left and right, by turns, towards the dog. 2 metres in front of the dog the ghosts stop. The leash is taken of the dog.

The rest of the test I understand but a ghost??? Do you guys have a lot of ghost in Denmark??? I just had to ask.

[JeanT]

"The leash is taken off"... Is that to see whether the dog tries to get away, investigate, charge or ...?

[Judi W]

The slow moving figures with large staring eyes are very disconcerting.

Being restrained by a leash greatly reduces the dog's options

[damp]

Also the judge wants to see a dog… on it’s own walking in front of the owner and make contact to the item/helpers.

(You see that in the first "ghost picture"...and also the dog is not quite secure with the situation)