Too young for prong ????

[rottielover2004]

I have a question for you all. I know someone who just adopted a 5 month old rottie from the spca. She has decided to buy a prong collar for him. Is it me or do you find that to be absurd????. I think that young is alittle too young for a prong. I have yet to meet this puppy, but she says that he is too hard for her to handle with a normal collar. I have tried to explain, but I am not a professional. Does anyone else agree with me that it is too young ?

[RottiMomCT]

It depends on the dog and the handler. If the dog is strong enough to pull you across the room (or the street) then it can deal with a prong collar.

As long as your friend isn't getting the prong because she was 'told' she had to have one I don't see a problem with it. Has the pup shown a need to be fitted with a prong?

That said, I have a 16 week old Viszla in one of my classes who had been pulling like a madman and was getting nowhere in terms of learning anything. Class was a constant struggle for both dog and owner. They give the pup a ton of exercise, plenty of stimulation and socialization, but his pulling was hurting his learning.

Put a prong on him and he is a 1000% different dog - alert, attentive, ready to work - the second that collar comes off, he knows it. His owners know they've got a long road ahead in terms of training to get him off the prong, but it's a great training tool. Graduation is tomorrow night for little Cooper - I expect to hear great things about him in the future..his owners are doing a wonderful job working with him - he just might get the most improved, in spite of his often space cadet dad!

[Burnsway]

I'm with RottimomCT. I think it depends on the dog and handler/owner and what agenda thay have. I usually don't like to see them on any dog younger then 6 months but if I knew someone with a real strong dog and they were going to use it correctly for training and not a crutch I wouldn't see a problem with a 5 month old.

[poohbearsmom]

I would rather this person seek the help of a qualified trainer. 5 months old is still very young, and there are many ingenious ways the owner can deal with this pup, rather than resort to a prong as a first plan of action.

Although a prong is a fabulous training tool, and one that I use frequently during training, it doesn't match learning to communicate your wishes to the pup in other ways, and it shouldn't be a crutch.

By using the pup's natural drive for food or play, the owner should be able to get the pup's attention, and begin teaching manners.

If the pup is pulling on the lead, for instance, change direction, and lure the pup with a treat, and reward it once it hits the mark. Training a pup or youth dog can be done with very little correction - it boils down to using one's noggin. This is where a trainer can come in handy.

I've yet to see a pup under the age of a year or so that needed very much correction - instead, they need us to help them break the communication barriers. The idea is to create a trust in the relationship, not to be the bestower of discomfort. Dogs have to understand what we want from them, before they can give it to us.

Good luck to your friend.

[SABELLESMOM]

I think a great deal also depends on the lady in question. I have a touch of arthritis in my hands which when Sable was young made things difficult. Raven on the other hand is a totally different story.

So if she's not doing it because someone told her it's the only way to handle one of these dogs, or something, there's not much you can do. In fact, perhaps encouraging her to a class would be more profitable. There she can learn how to use it properly.

[beledi]

You might try what is called a "Gentle Leader". They go around the nose and head, so they can not pull with their neck. There is another brand of which the name escapes me now, but it has a couple pieces of plastic near the side of the eye, which might jab the dog in the eye if it is not put on correctly. I have seen these trainers in use, and they seem quite humane and safe. Dog training instructors in one place here in town, use them, and will not allow slip or pinch collars in class. Anyone else have any advice concerning these training aids? I work in a vet clinic and we do not recommend the chain slip collars, because of chance of injury to the trach due to missuse. Luckily have not had any dogs hung from a fence, etc., because of people not using them correctly. Some people think a big chain around the neck is macho. (Lots of trouble with illegal dog fighting in our area, with both rotties and pit bulls.)

Beledi/Erda's mom

[rottielover2004]

I will let her know about the gentel leader, but I Myself have had problems with it. My 2 yr old female, would always shy away thinking she was being punished, and started to become fearful of it, I changed to a prong, and she is alot better with the hands now. She actually runs to the prong. I will also tell my friend that she should go to classes to teach the dog. I think what she originally wanted it for was to make the dog obey. not pulling. Which i do not find right.

[LisaS]

it may be that the pup is totally untrained and that she needs to get immediate control for things like potty-walks. If she has a situation where they have to go out on lead for elimination - some additional help might be needed with control until training can take over.
- in this case she will need some help with a 2-pronged approach (pardon the pun) -
A) immediate control for things like potty walks, going to vet, etc.
B) long-term control via training

[SABELLESMOM]

I know people who swear by gentle leaders. Still...they must be used correctly as well! You can not yank of stop too suddenly. The dog cannot "take off" at a run, even by accident because, well...neck injury.

I, on a more personal preference note, feel they "look like" a muzzle, to many uninformed people out there. I don't like the idea of anyone misinterpreting what I'm using on my dog.

[poohbearsmom]

Bottom line, it sounds as though this new owner needs to find a good trainer. Whatever training tools are needed, she needs to know the proper use, the how's and whys. This cannot be demonstrated on a discussion forum.

I will repeat that this is a 5 mos old pup. Not a 2 year old untrained male. Using one's head, and practicing positive training techniques goes a long way on a pup of this age.

Strength of mind is a lot more impressive than strength of arm in training.

[rottnelmo]

Originally Posted by SABELLESMOM

I know people who swear by gentle leaders. Still...they must be used correctly as well! You can not yank of stop too suddenly. The dog cannot "take off" at a run, even by accident because, well...neck injury.

I, on a more personal preference note, feel they "look like" a muzzle, to many uninformed people out there. I don't like the idea of anyone misinterpreting what I'm using on my dog.

I personally do not like the gentle leader or Halti type collars. I agree that they look muzzle like and can cause neck damage. The halti has not worked for any of my dogs and a number of dogs that I have had in training classes. I get the premis that if you can lead a 1200 pound horse around by the head why cant you lead a dog...mainly, I think because of the shape of the dogs head is no condusive to a "halter". It just never fit Elmo right with his short nose stop. Pinched and got into his eyes...plus it was a bear to put on.

Whatever collar is chosen in this circumstance should be done with the assistance of a qualified trainer. Dont rule out the prong because of its looks...works better than any other collar is used correctly...in my opinion.

[rottielover2004]

I do not have anything against the prong, as I said I started to use it on my female, works well. I also know how to use it properly. Same as the gentle leader, but for some reason she was just so scared of it???. Right now she is using a leather buckle collar, she just does not think that it is working too well. But I also informed her that she just got the puppy, and who knows what the people were doing before, and she needs patience and a trainer. She is looking for a good one now. Going to a couple of diff classes to see techniques being used.

[Wally31]

I started our boy Tuck on a prong collar at that age because he was very strong at 72lbs and very undiscplined when it came to walking on a leash. I didn't really need it for me but for my girlfreind and her daughter. Tuck could drag them where he pleased. Now he is really good on and type of leash after a month of use. I personally am glad we started at that age because he was a little smaller and pulled less than he would this month now being 85lbs. I feel we started at the right time, while he was more manageable. I think it really depends on your situation, but I don't feel it is a problem. Our boy really didn't mind the collar at all. I would just be sure you have the proper fit and placement of the collar on the dog if you have never used one there are several webs sites out there with pictures of exactly where you should have it.

[SABELLESMOM]

Originally Posted by rottnelmo

Dont rule out the prong because of its looks...works better than any other collar is used correctly...in my opinion.

Oh I definately used a prong. Sable was very hard on my hands. Almost the instant I put the prong on...I had a trainable dog! I never needed it with Raven. Both use regular collars.