American dogs in European shows?

[SOX_H8r]

If you'd have to guess, what percentage of entries in major European shows are actually from American owners?

[Judi W]

European takes in a very large number of countries. Some have restrictions regarding the showing of undocked dogs, others do not so I would suggest that you need to identify country by country.

[SOX_H8r]

Let's start with Germany.

[Leader]

Tails can't be docked in Germany anymore...So American (tails docked I mean) rotties wouldn't be shown there anymore, I don't think.

Leader

[damp]

As far as I know, you can’t show docked dogs in any EU country where tail docking is not allowed. (Some countries may have an exception for dogs born before the ban.) You have to check each Country’s Kennel Club to get the specific rules.

[SOX_H8r]

The reason I'm asking is because I'm seeing more and more footnotes in breeding announcements that tails will not be docked in accordance to FCI standards. The reason mostly being given -- if dogs are to be shown abroad, a tail is necessary.

Now if the percentage of US dogs being shown in Europe is relatively small, then tailed rottweilers are being sold to American homes based on the needs of a few, not the many.

I know there are pros and cons regarding tails being helpful or a hinderance in working rotties. As many opinions as potholes. It's just sad that foreign standards are being force fed to us.

I know, many who are deciding to leave tails on puppies are saying, if you don't like it, find a breeder who docks the pups. The problem is, if there's a particular breeding you like and litter is tailed, you're stuck with a unwanted characteristic.

I guess it's like Japan saying every car manufactured in 06 will be a convertable, no choice. If you import an American car it must be a convertable or you can't drive it in that country. Every car sold to the US will be non-hardtop.

Different standards = narrow choices.

[sophie's-mom]

One thing to remember, a lot of these breeders that are leaving tails on are breeding for themselves, NOT the general public.

If that breeder wanted to go and show in Germany some time in the future, he's going to leave the tail on.

The entire litter needs to be either docked or not docked so if you want a docked dog you WILL need to go elsewhere.

[WCR]

If I may chime in; I agree with the comment that breeders that leave tails on are primarily breeding for themselves, which should always be the case for any breeding. There is definitely no shortage of buyers for undocked Rotts. I personnally cannot understand the reasoning for not allowing tailed dogs into the U.S. show arena. Let's face it, the world around us has changed but, we refuse? I enjoy the ones I have with tails, more so than my docked. Owning rotts for 22 years it was odd at first, now I would not go back. Here is a bit of irony: pretty famous judge from a system that does not allow tails uses frequently a male that has a tail, yet he denounces Rotts with tails openly. We need to get over this minor quibble and proceed with the rest of the world. A tail is of no consequence to a great breeding. The issue of other "countries" values being forced upon ourselves just not justify the close-minded attitude of the American arena. We can't change what already is, but we can evolve with the rest of the world.
Bob

[sophie's-mom]

From what I've read on this board there is NO organization that DQs a dog for having a tail. Is this correct or incorrect, anyone?

[WCR]

Let me bring that into perspective. A very nice import with a tail was shown at a show and was removed immediately from the ring, only for that reason. A judge that was ringside commented that the dog, presented into their ring would have been sent to the back of the group due to a tail, but not ejected. Depends on the judge, but shows the disdain. V1 dog anywhere else. We should be able to take a Rottweiler, show in any venue here, the most progressive country in the free world, but cannot? In my opinion, organizations that support the removal/marking down/etc of tailed Rotts in the ring should step up and not breed to them either, if a tail matters that much! Pardon my rant, but this is a rather silly issue when dealing with great dogs and genetic attributes to our system...where would the American Rottweiler be without the homelands genetic pool? Again, I apologize for being strong minded on this subject, but are we not shooting ourselves in the foot?
Bob

[LisaS]

Here is the passage from the AKC standard:
Tail--Tail docked short, close to body, leaving one or two tail vertebrae. The set of the tail is more important than length. Properly set, it gives an impression of elongation of topline; carried slightly above horizontal when the dog is excited or moving.

It doesn't explicitly say DQ if full tail present - but I'm not sure what would happen in practice -

[sophie's-mom]

We've got tailed dogs that have been AKC pointed on this board. I can see where the judge might not give the dog a second look but to throw him out completely JUST because of a tail????

[WCR]

Now, I will say this, there is a small hand-full of judges that are willing to put up a tailed Rott. I applaud them. With respect to AKC standard, was that not derived from the ADRK standard? Can standards be changed? Of course, many breeds have, especially with ears.....

Just to add a bit of fuel to our little discussion...wanted to enter a Belgian Import I had just brought in. Called the sponsoring club to question as to whether or not I could show this dog, "You may enter, but it is to the discretion of the judge to allowing your entrance. We however, do not support or encourage tailed Rottweilers." This clubs litter ads, that are placed there by their members, utilize a large number of tailed studs. Did I attend the show? No. I should have though, the judge was one that was willing to break rank and put the best Rott up docked or not.
Bob

[SOX_H8r]

Seems to me that some AKC judges are as close minded about tailed rottweilers as European judges are about American docked rottweilers.
A rottweiler should be judged according to the country of birth's standard, it's not rocket science. I think the ADRK should make exceptions for American dogs.


I liked a docked tail, call it personal preference. Untill the standard in the US is changed, I'll try to own only docked rottweilers. I really, really, like the look of a docked rottweiler. Again, it's just personal preference.

Just because the "homeland" changes the standard in such a drastic fashion, doesn't make it right either.

[VonScosher]

I find this an interesting topic, one that has been tossed around on other boards as well. I personally have a litter of 13 that just whelped on Saturday night and we will be docking the tails on this litter. I have also just imported a bitch from Germany who was bred over there and her pups will be left with tails. No particular reason as to why one is being docked and one not, as I am keeping a puppy from both. I find the people who participate in the German arena here in the states are more partial to having tails now, whereas those who show AKC obviously want the tails docked. I have both tailed and docked dogs and enjoy the dogs either way. I wish that we could do half and half on litters but that will never happen due to the thought that someone could dock a tail later in the pups life.JMO