Questions possibly pregnant Rott

[BostonRott]

Originally Posted by Rotty4Me

Osteosarcoma can occur in unneutered animals as well. Intact rottweilers of either sex unfortunately succumb to this horrible disease quite often.

Yes, but there are recent studies, in Rottweilers, specifically addressing age of neutering and occurence of osteosarcoma.

As a breeder, I have recommended males to be neutered after 18mos, and females by their first heat. That will now change after these studies have come out. I will no longer recommend females be spayed before their first heat. Preferrably, they will be done around 16mos, but it will depend on what their cycles are. Risks of osteo with early neutering are FAR higher than the risk of mammary gland cancer, even after 1 heat. As well, osteo tends to be far more devestating and fatal than mammary gland CA.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by Rotty4Me

In the hands of some BYB who gets wind of the idea they can sell their puppies "ethically" now by saying they don't have to be neutered till later on, leaves a whole ball of wax yet to be dealt with.

I suppose we could try to keep it secret, but the genie appears to be out of the bottle. Limiting access to information does not solve anything, it just works to the detriment of those who would better the lives of dogs with it. With any piece of information there will be those who use it for the right reasons, and there will be those who use it to bolster their own delusional thinking and selfish goals. The battle for good and evil rages on....

[Rotty4Me]

Originally Posted by moondog

The battle for good and evil rages on....

Oh my word you are SO right there! The answer is never an easy one I don't think. Ultimately we are all trying to do the very best by our dogs & with the information we have available to us. Nothing ever seems to be cut & dry in the least. But onward we do march & maybe someday we will all prevail & there will be justice in this world! (we definitely all have enough passion to do it! )

Maureen

[spidey]

I'd just like to point out that spaying and neutering of pets is FAR less common in Europe than in North America, and yet somehow the majority of owners over there manage to keep unwanted pregnancies from happening at the rate they happen here (even with the amount of routine spaying and neutering that happens here). I suspect that at least part of the problem here in North America is that people have never learned how to responsibly own intact pets. The fact that so many people don't know how to do this, however, should not mean that we assume that NOBODY knows how, nor does it mean that it's rocket science. Responsible management of intact pets is pretty straightforward, perhaps we should work toward educating people about how to do so, not least because there is growing evidence that leaving pets intact for at least a year or two is healthier for them in the long run.

I do know that my own thinking about leaving pets intact has changed since I became aware of the more current research.

[flyballmom]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

Yes, but there are recent studies, in Rottweilers, specifically addressing age of neutering and occurence of osteosarcoma. Risks of osteo with early neutering are FAR higher than the risk of mammary gland cancer, even after 1 heat. As well, osteo tends to be far more devestating and fatal than mammary gland CA.

This right here, is why I'm waiting to spay Blitz, at a time to be determined later, with the advice of people like her breeder, and Gretchen and others here much more knowledgeable than I. Blitz is right now, at this moment, in season for the first time. (At 11 months, so she's a late bloomer. ) She has been for 2 weeks, isn't pregnant, and isn't going to be. My fur was a bit ruffled reading these posts too, altho for different reasons than moondogs. I put alot of work into finding the right pup for me from a reputable breeder, and Becky put alot of work into making sure her puppy didn't go to a kook (altho maybe she's changed her mind about that part by now ) If I had to choose between osteo or mammary CA, believe me, I'd rather the latter. We pet home people are not ALL irresponsible. Sorry...been stewing about this all day...had to get if off my chest.

[Rotty4Me]

Originally Posted by flyballmom

We pet home people are not ALL irresponsible. Sorry...been stewing about this all day...had to get if off my chest.

I think there was a HUGE misunderstanding somewhere. I was never referring to the educated responsible pet owner. I was referring to the average lay person. Not every puppy buyer who has ever purchased a rottweiler puppy from a reputable breeder does as much research to educate themselves as most of the people here do. I was in no way putting anyone here down. I don't think there is a clear cut answer here. Maybe we will lower the cancer rate in our breed by delaying neutering, but it could cause a rise in some other negative issues. I have seen people swear by a contract & seem like the best of the best, only to walk off & disregard what was agreed upon. This is what worries me. How responsible would someone like that be if they could use their breeder's contract as the reason for not neutering their puppy & allowing it to become pregnant "accidentally?" It does & will happen.

I really do rest my case now. I have an opinion & also understand those voiced by others here. None of what I said was referring to the responsible educated pet owner. I am talking about the rest of the world out there.

And incidently my 7yr old neutered male's sire, who was intact till the day he died, lost his battle with osteosarcoma at 8yrs of age. But YES, I do realize that there is a connection between early spaying & osteo.... If I ever breed, I am uncertain what I will do at this point.

Maureen

[RottieMom51503]

I just wanted to Let everyone know that Holly's Surgery went Great. I paid extra for the Cardio and pre op blood work. We are waiting for her to wake up and then I can go get her. I am so relieved everything went okay. I was a nervous wreck this morning after dropping her off. I cleaned my whole house in two hours. Anyhow she is doing great just waiting for her to wake up. Hopefully it WILL QUIT SNOWING and I'll be able to go pick her up soon. Thank you everyone for your help.

[frontierrots]

GREAT! I am so glad!!! :)

[Judi W]

I was quite confident that it would be fine. In shelter work, many a bitch is spayed without even knowing ahead of time that he is pregnant. It is not all that unusual.

[Luvs]

I am really glad to hear that everything went well and Holly will be home soon.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by RottieMom51503

I just wanted to Let everyone know that Holly's Surgery went Great. I paid extra for the Cardio and pre op blood work. We are waiting for her to wake up and then I can go get her. I am so relieved everything went okay. I was a nervous wreck this morning after dropping her off. I cleaned my whole house in two hours. Anyhow she is doing great just waiting for her to wake up. Hopefully it WILL QUIT SNOWING and I'll be able to go pick her up soon. Thank you everyone for your help.

I'm glad everything went well! It's nervewracking enough when it's your own dog, and to shoulder this situation for someone else's treasured pet makes it even more so. You have handled the entire situation like a pro, and you are the kind of friend we all hope to have, human and canine alike.

[targonrotts]

good to hear!
she'll be back to herself in no time!
keep us posted when she gets home.

[RottieMom51503]

Holly is back here and settled in again. The poor girl I feel so bad for her. She has to go back to have the stiches out in two weeks. It's been awhile since I have heard of a Vet using those stiches. The same Vet put dissolving stiches in Daphne. Anyhow we got her home a tried to put her in the crate so she was away from the other dogs. That didn't work out well for her because she has one of those cones on. So I went back up to walmart and bought some baby gates and have the kitchen blocked off for just her. I put an old dog bed on the floor for her and took her cone off for awhile (watching her real close though) so she could sleep a little better. I have pain pills to give her for the next four days. She is not a happy camper though. She is laying down but fighting sleep real bad. I sat down by her for awhile to rub her head and she wiggled her tail but never picked her head up. She will be able to start eating tomarrow.

You should see the look in her eye, It is so pitiful and breaks your heart and makes you wanna cry. I bought some scrapbook materials while at walmart and I am going to stay up with her tonight and make a scrapbook of Daphne's baby pictures. I keep everyone posted on her.

[Bastianboy]

Poor thing. She'll pop back quickly I'm sure. I would think that some of her pathetic-ness (is that a word?) is from the anesthesia still. It can leave dogs loopy for a whole day or two. Just love her and she'll be fine.

[BostonRott]

Call your vet in the a.m. and ask them if they have the Bitenot collars. It's used instead of the big cone, but still keeps the dog away from the sutures, etc. It's similar to the hard plastic collars that people with neck injuries wear and the dogs seem to tolerate them well.