Puppy socialization and vaccinations....

[bluegirl24NY]

Hello everyone,
I'm hoping to get an answer here to what might be a silly question - but here goes!
Our pup is a 2 month old male, and I'm just a little confused as to when we should be socializing him with other animals. Both our vet and breeder said not to let him have contact with ANY other animals until he's been fully innoculated - but then I'm hearing about other Rottie puppies who are already going to puppy pre-K and kindergarten classes, so I'm confused how they can do that if they didn't have all the required vaccinations first? Or is the term "puppy" just referring to a cartain age range - say up to 1 year old? It's very important for us to know that our pup is introduced to other animals so he will be a properly socialized dog, but we will not risk exposing him to any diseases while his immume system is still developing. I might just be ahead of myself here, but what is the normal age to start doing these puppy socialization classes? Thanks for helping a new Rottie mom!

[spidey]

I'll say up front that I feel very strongly that the danger of potentially exposing a puppy to diseases (most of which can be treated) is far smaller than the danger of undersocializing. That said, there are ways to get your puppy out and about relatively safely. Do not let him walk on porous surfaces (like grass) where unvaccinated dogs may have urinated or defecated. Try to find friendly dogs, who you know are vaccinated, to come over to your house for a play session. Hold puppy parties, invite people over to play with the puppy and feed him treats. Carry him into PetSmart, bring a clean towel, place the towel in the bottom of a shopping cart, put puppy on the towel, wheel him around PetSmart.

Do remember though that if your breeder's contract specifically states that you are not to allow contact with any other animals, then doing as I describe above may invalidate your contract. That said, I would much rather deal with a sick or even dying puppy for a few weeks than deal with an undersocialized dog for ten years.

[LORHEL]

I just wanted to add that when he had our first rottie pup, we were mistaken as well as far as WHEN we could start getting him out and about, and we waited too long. We waited until the very last set of shots was done, and we missed crucial time when puppies should be experiencing all kinds of people, sights and sounds, and other socialization. You'll get good advice (as shown above by the poster before me) I can't stress the importance of when they say go ahead, to do this.

It make a huge difference in how they react to things, situations, and people.

Congratulations on your pup!

[Carol Burke]

I, too, believe that socialization is paramount. My feeling is as long as the puppy has at least one set of shots for distemper and parvo you can pretty much take him to puppy class with a few things to watch out for. You would obviously not allow your puppy around any puppy or dog that does not appear to be healthy. Do not allow your puppy to explore areas where other dogs have defecated.

Puppy class generally is for puppies 12 weeks old and is an important part of your puppy's socialization and beginning obedience. Usually the people running a puppy class are careful about puppies attending and will do as much as possible to insure your puppy's safety and health.

Some of us who are more holistically inclined feel that no exposure is worse then being exposed to other dogs and puppies. How is a dog to develop an immunity to disease if it is not exposed to anything? As long as your puppy is healthy, on schedule weight wise and you use some common sense I would not keep the puppy home just because it's shots are not completed.

[Patty1231]

Rocco didn't start training classes until he was 16 weeks old and had all his shots (this was recommended by his breeder and vet, so with no prior experience I followed their advice). He didn't attend a "puppy class" but rather went directly into obedience. He did just fine and had no problems with other dogs (and still doesn't), although not exposed to them prior to that. He did get plenty of socialization with people, places, and things prior to starting classes, just not other dogs.

[SonnyRott]

We brought our puppy home at 7 weeks (almost 8). We started socializing him right away. We had kids and friends over. We allowed dogs over too who were vacinated and gentle with the puppy. He was exposed to car rides immediately. If we brought him places where dog doo-doo may be (like the park), we spread out a blanket and had a picnic. He went everywhere and still does. Dunkin Donuts, grocery store, Home Depot, church, etc. Now that he's bigger he waits in the truck. When he was little, everyone wanted to see and pet him so he was never turned away from a store. It really made all the difference in the world. Nothing rattles him as I believe he thinks the world is a safe place.

We made sure to take things slow and easy and not to overwhelm him. Make every experience positive and light-hearted. You are in that window of opportunity....don't miss it!

[BostonRott]

I completely agree with Spidey, 100%. I think the problems of undersocialization far outweigh the chances of contagious disease.

Xcel is now 10 weeks, and arrived here at 8 weeks. So far he has visited the following:

Fire station
3 different training facilities (NOT boarding facilities)
Post office
3 Ambulance stations (two of them 3x each)
Tracking (twice .... 2 different fields)
Bank
Vet (twice, once for an exam, once to hang out up front with the ladies while Banja saw the chiro)
Hydrotherapy (twice)
Diane's house (Frontierrots)
Public park with few dogs
Baseball field full of Canada geese
Puppy kindergarten (started Tuesday)

This weekend he'll travel with me to an agility trial on both Saturday and Sunday.

He was vaccinated once at 6.5 weeks, and again at 9.5 weeks with parvo/distemper. He'll get a 5-way vaccine in a month.

I think that for a puppy who is of good stock, known history, and who nursed on a healthy mother (and got colustrum), the following are safe:

• Dog training facilities who are NOT boarding kennels (this is not a commentary on kennels, but more on the clueless owners who drop off sick animals there, unbeknownst to the kennel staff)
• Agility / Schutzhund clubs/trials
• Public places without a lot of dogs such as Fire/Police stations, book stores, CD stores, hardware stores, post offices, my place of employment

I would not take a puppy without full vaccines to places like:

Boarding kennels
Dog parks
Petsmart (smaller stores with higher-end clientele may be ok, but not a mass warehouse like this....IMO)
Breed show
Public parks with heavy dog traffic

[moondog]

I brought my little treasure home at 7-1/2 weeks. She did not attend class until 16 weeks, but she got plenty of socialization and education before then. She went everywhere with me. She met cats and dog and horses and kids and old folks and bicycles and strollers and sticks and basketballs and grasshoppers and birds and squirrels.....she went to gas stations and hardware stores and feed stores and pet stores and vet offices and neighbor's homes. We walked on the side of the street instead of on the sidewalk to avoid exposure to areas other dogs had pottied in and did not go to parks where many dogs have been. We visited puppy friendly and healthy dogs at their homes and invited them to visit us at ours. I sought out every kid I could find to interact with her. Once we started classes, the socialization still continued, and still does to this day...she's almost 10 and the best buddy I've ever had the pleasure to know. Have fun with your puppy!

[Brooke&Ryan]

Julius was brought home at 9 weeks of age & as most people said, the thought of undersocialization was more worrysome than anything he could possibly contract. He was out and about with us from day one.


Brooke

[Tank's Grandma]

We got Jake out as much as we possibly could, however we were specifically warned by our vet that there is in fact a Parvo problem in San Diego, where we live, and we should be very careful where we took him before he was vaccinated, so weighing the undersocialization/health risk issue could depend on where you live. Yes, as you all pointed out, there are safe places, and places that aren't good ideas. He also had Tank to play with, and all kinds of things he got exposed to around our own house like loud motorcycles.

[bluegirl24NY]

Thanks everyone for the helpful and encouraging advice! This is still all so new to my husband and I, even with all the resarch we've done and continue to do - there are still contradictions, and this site is really helpful in sorting it all out :) We have so far brought him on a car ride to the bank and around the block, as well as our first visit to the vet the week we brough him home. He was very squirmy in the car, but I imagine that was from wanting to get out there and see/taste all these new things! :) He is such a sweet dog, we just want to be sure we are doing the right thing for him! Thanks again!!

[BostonRott]

When he is in the car, please be sure to restrain him in some manner, either a crate (preferrable) or a seat-belt harness. If he's loose and you get in an accident, he's as good as dead, either from the crash or when he gets free on the road in traffic.

[LORHEL]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned earlier, but make sure not to place him down on the floor at the vets, keep him in your arms or on the examining table, just a small heads up, you might already know this ;)

[bluegirl24NY]

Originally Posted by LORHEL

I'm not sure if this was mentioned earlier, but make sure not to place him down on the floor at the vets, keep him in your arms or on the examining table, just a small heads up, you might already know this ;)

yeah - I was really paranoid about that on our first visit, so I held him the whole time - only letting him down on the examination table and in our lap as we were waiting. Figure the other dogs there might be sick or whatever, so we didn't even want to take a chance. He was only 12.5 pounds at that point - I'll have to do some weight traiing before our next visit now that he's about 15!!

[SABELLESMOM]

I'll probably going to come off like a "fence sitter" but...Socalization can be accomplished in a variety of ways that are less endangering than others.

For instance, do you have friends with dogs? Ones that you trust have had their dogs immunized appropriately? Are very healthy? Have glossy coats? You could have your pup socalize with this type of "safe" or at least "more safe" dog(s).

Leash walking can be done on the sidewalk. Rain will wash away most of the truly bad stuff. I was probably overly cautious in that I didn't allow him to go into the grass, or contact with just any dog. I'd be right up front. No. my girl hasn't had all her shots, yet. the vet says no for a few more weeks. And leave it at that.

Classes? Pups learn more easily at 4-5 months or after, anyway! And nothing is stopping you from teaching at home.

I also have the advantage of having other dogs in my own home. I know they are healthy, parvo free, etc. So socalization with other dogs was a bit easier. People? That's easy because people don't have parvo. Yes, I suppose it could be tracked on shoes.

So, ultimately? I was cautious, and very careful. I do think they would miss out on a good share of dog language lessons if totally deprived of contact. I chose selective contact.

You don't have to go to a park frequented by other dogs. Even if the rules are to pick up after your dog. There are too many owners who try to get away with leaving it when not seen or in the snow, etc. I'd avoid dog play parks anyway if we had any. That can't be healthy or safe even for an adult.