Daycare?

[Journey77]

I have a nine week old male. I am contemplating putting him in doggy daycare at 12 weeks of age for human and animal socializing. He would only be going half a day once a week. What do you think?

[Bucky's Mom]

Originally Posted by Journey77

I have a nine week old male. I am contemplating putting him in doggy daycare at 12 weeks of age for human and animal socializing. He would only be going half a day once a week. What do you think?

Hello - and welcome to the forum. One question - is this because you work at that time or is this purely like a "doggie pre-school" for you?:)

[Journey77]

I actually work at a vet. I only work about 25 hours a week so I have plenty of one on one time with him. I was thinking about doing it solely for the socialization.

[lblax]

Originally Posted by Journey77

I actually work at a vet. I only work about 25 hours a week so I have plenty of one on one time with him. I was thinking about doing it solely for the socialization.

socialize him your self doggy daycare isnt any better of an idea than a dog park and more harm than good can be done

[Bucky's Mom]

In that case I would think your time and money would be better spent on a puppy class that you could do together - it would help him bond with YOU and then YOU would be in charge of taking him to all the different places you can and exposing him to life TOGETHER.

THAT would be a much better form of socializing than "daycare".

Have fun and happy puppy time - it goes by SO quickly.

[Journey77]

The dog parks scare me because of him catching disease or viruses. The doggy day care insures that all dogs have all their vaccinations. I just being a nervous mom and want to do what I can to keep him well socialized. Also going to the dog parks I will constantly have to tell people "my dog is nice". Dallas has assisted in giving Rottweilers a bad name with not allowing people to own them if they rent housing. Am I being overly protective?

[Journey77]

The place that offers the Day Care does offer several levels of Obedience. I will check in how young we can start. In your opinion what is good age to start going to Obedience classes. I am still working on "sit" but I don't think he has completely accomplished the command.

[babybluetx23]

I agree with Lisa (Bucky's Mom) on this one. I would save your money and socialize your pup yourself. Besides it is MUCH more fun and the bond that you create is INCREDIBLE when you socialize your animal yourself!
Here are a few ideas for Socialization:

* Walks in a park -A heavily populated Park is a great Idea. That way the dog gets used to all kinds of people, scents, sights and sounds
* Petsmart - I take harley to petsmart once a week. There are ALWAYS kids, Other dogs, Tall people, short people, all races and creeds of people that he can get used to and they ALWAYS want to pet him. Plus there are PLENTY of distractions that I can work with Harley on some of his Commands.
* Find a restraunt that will allow you to eat on the patio with your pup. They get used to the foot traffic coming and going, they get used to the smells and this is also a bonus moment to teach your pup to lay down and not Beg for food.
* The fast food drive thru window
* The ATM Machine
* Mall Parking lots
* Grocery Store Parking Lots
* College Campuses

Journey, where in Dallas do you live?? I have a LOT of good resources for you and I can help you out! I live in Arlington.

There are just a FEW ideas!
There is a website on the net called dogfriendly.com
You can ALWAYS Check there.
Take your pup anywhere and everywhere that you can. I PROMISE you wont regret it!

As far as when to start your pup in Obedience training......ASAP! The sooner the better. The OB schools and classes in my area wont do it until the dog has ALL Vaccinations, So I started at home with him. We started with the basics, Sit, Down, Stay, I taught him not to pull on a leash, Not to jump on people, I taught him to drop it, leave it, come, ect.
Just a small word of advice that will keep you from pulling your hair out.....Dont ask your pup to perform a command, TELL him to! hehehe I went through that with Harley. GOOD LUCK!

[Journey77]

Great Ideas! This has really helped and is changing my mind. I actually live in Garland, 10 minutes of Downtown! It is great to meet you!

[babybluetx23]

I would love to get with you and help you out with your rottie.

[Lorrie]

Daycare and Dog Parks are not necessarily "bad" things .. it just depends on so many different factors that it is hard to condon or condem in general.

At Dog Parks - depending on the dogs and owners that go - it can actually do more harm then good if your pup ends up on the wrong end of a "socialization" encounter - with the "class bully". However I have access to a really decent dog park were the dogs are social and the people aren't idiots. It was a instrumental in Boone's rehabilitation .. I can't tell you how much going there helped his confidence. However .. we have not been there for well over a year .. no longer need it. :D

Daycare - again .. depends on the facility and the people running it .. it just isn't for every dog .. and even fewer Rotts in my opinion. Frankie goes to Daycare, almost every day. But I have known and worked with these people for a few years and trust them with even my most precious of boys! As he gets older and can stay home with the "big dogs" he will go less. But Daycare has been phenominal for exposing him to the "world" and has helped with his budding separation anxiety as I "leave" him everyday. It IS good for socialization IF it is run properly.

[LUVMYROTTNBOY]

I have boarded my dog in a place that has daycare. I had to place my 7mo old puppy in boarding for a week during spring break. I did not have reservations anywhere as I had aquired the dog 2months prior. It was the only boarding facility not booked up for Spring Break. This boarding facility is a 24/7 daycare, and people spend the night with the dogs to watch them. I would use caution. I know they kept good care of him, and he had fun playing with other dogs. But When I picked him up he had kennel cough. He had been vaccinated for kennel cough but he got a strain not covered by the vaccine. There is added exposure when surrounded by dogs in confined quarters. I had a monster vet bill to get him treated, and he missed some of his obedience classes because he could not be around other dogs. You also have no control over the dog's experiences while he is in daycare. Just something to think about. Dog parks near me require that all dogs are vaccinated, maybe its the same near your home?

My vote, skip the daycare , and socialize him on your own.

[Journey77]

Thank you for everyone’s advice. I think we have decided not to do daycare. I have received some great ideas. We do not board our older Rotts, if we need to go out of town and family can not stay over at our house then we do not go out of town. We do this solely because we do not know what goes on behind doors. I have been working in animal hospitals for 10 years and I guess I have been lucky to have never see neglect or abuse where I have worked. I need to remember that diseases can still be spread and neglect can go on. I am going to in enroll him in Obedience classes and I have already found a dog park. I want to visit both places first without Leo.

[LynnS]

Just another side to the coin -

I had Bella in a puppy day care for the first few months we had her (my husband stayed home the first 3 weeks so this lasted maybe 2.5 mnths). The place was excellent and I really did my homework. That being said, once she reached about 5 mnths of age there were many signs that said time to move on (with the expert input of some people on this board)! I do agree that it is no replacement for bonding with an owner and socializing on your own. In our case it actually had very little impact on how Bella relates to dogs as an adult except that she is used to being around a lot of different dogs and people (can easily be accomplished just through classes).

As an aside I do not believe it is important that Bella have doggy playmates as an adult and that did not really play into the decision.

[Mojave's Mom]

A couple of items on dog-parks for you to read since you mentioned you're going to go check one out. I, for one, am not for either dog parks or doggy daycare. I agree with the following:
"Dog Parks"
Why They Are A Bad Idea !!!

"It's Your Job to Protect Your Dog"

By Ed Frawley

About once every couple of days I get an email from someone asking about problems with their dogs being attacked when they are on walks or running loose at one of the local parks that many cities setup for people to take their dogs to. People question me on how to deal with overly aggressive dogs that belong to other people and they question me about their own dogs not trying to defend themselves. Some people want to know if they should just let the dogs work out the problems themselves.

I want to go on record as saying that the concept of ”Dog Parks” was well intended but a bad idea, especially if the dogs are allowed to run off-leash. I do not recommend people take their dogs to these places.

The average person does not understand how strong the pack instinct is in their pet. These drives click into high gear when a dog is taken into a park with other dogs. Dogs that are encountered when going to these parks look at the new visitors as intruders in “their personal territory.” This leads to territorial aggression.

When there is a group of dogs that are allowed to run together, they instinctively try to establish a rank order (or packing order). If there are several dogs that want to assume the role of pack leader there are going to be problems. If the dogs are left to their own devices, each dog will assume its rank within the pack. There is a good possibility that fights will develop to determine what order various dogs fall in.

With inexperienced dogs, or dogs that do not have strong temperaments there will be posturing going on before a fight begins. Many times owners can verbally control their dogs and warn them to back off. But all too often dogs who have fought before will launch into a full-fledged attack. These dogs have learned that a fast attack is often a successful attack. In other words, they have learned to be good fighters.

You cannot assume that every dog in the park is a well-mannered, well-trained pet. Just because you see it playing with other dogs does not mean that it will play with your dog. It has already settled the rank order with these other dogs and the game may be going according to their rules. Your dog will not know the rules and can easily get into trouble.



I often get emails from people who are disappointed in their puppy or young dog because it shys away from other dogs and shows avoidance to other dogs they meet on walks or in parks. These people don't understand that their dogs look to them as being “their pack leader.” In the wild the pack leader protects his pack. Your young dog instinctively expects you to protect it. When that does not happen, the dog is in conflict and loses confidence. If threatened before it is mature, these young dogs will show avoidance to strange dogs and strange situations. I am sure that what happens is that the pup learns that it's owner is not going to step in and help, so it's on it's own. This breaks down to a young dog becoming unsure in other situations. After all, if his best friend and pack leader will not protect him who will?

When you stop to think about it, normal people would not expect their young children to fight adults that were threatening them. So why do people expect their young dogs to show aggression to older dogs or even dogs of their own age? In most cases, the owners simply lack the understanding of pack drives and dog training. People get caught in the trap of thinking they have a German Shepherd from working police K-9 bloodlines and by God it should be tough!! Well, it doesn't always work that way.

If new owners do everything right when their pup is young the dog can grow up to be a confident, strong protection dog if it has the genes to allow this to happen. But in the hands of the wrong person the same dog can grow up to be a basket case. This is one of the reasons I do not guarantee temperament in the pups I sell. Too many people out there lack common sense or the experience to properly train a dog.

So if your dog is approached by a dog that looks like it may be aggressive you need to take the aggressors role. Verbally tell the dog in a deep voice to get out of there. If another dog attacks your dog you need to do what I explain in my article on Breaking Up A Dog Fight. If I were to walk a dog in the city, I would not do it without a can of pepper gas to use on any dog that even looks cross-eyed at my puppy. I would not hesitate to physically go after a dog that approaches my pup. The only ones that would be allowed to come close would be dogs I know for a fact are well-mannered, friendly soles that will be tolerant and play with my puppy.

While some breeds are predisposed to fight more than others, every breed has it's own bullies. There are too many people out there that don't come close to the label of being a “responsible pet owner.” With the number of fighting breeds growing, the risks of taking your pet to one of these parks is not worth taking. Owners need to realize that once a puppy or adult has been attacked, it will become a dog aggressive animal itself. This only has to happen one time for a permanent temperament change to occur in some animals. Dog aggression is a real pain in the ass.

Finally, if your dog is a bully and is aggressive to other dogs, you need to explain to him that this is unacceptable behavior. Softer dogs can get the message with a simple verbal reprimand, while other dogs need to have a prong collar put on and get a correction (after being told NO STOP THAT!!)

With persistent dogs this correction needs to be so hard that the dog thinks it's life is over. The correction needs to be so severe that the idea of fighting or showing aggression is not as strong as the fear of what happens when he does not mind. For these dogs the presence of another dog is a big distraction, but they need to understand that if they allow the distraction to take control the punishment will be swift and severe. Once they understand this simple concept they will become much better dogs because of it.

Giving a dog this kind of correction is not a pretty sight. Many people do not have the temperament to do it (they simply cannot bring themselves to do it), many people do not have the temperament to watch it (my sister-in-law is one of them), but dog fighting is serious business. Animals get hurt and people get hurt trying to break up fights. Every dog must look to his pack leader as the boss and learn that dog fighting is not something that will be tolerated.

Ed Frawley


The following is a great article that I believe Judi W posted awhile ago:

Puppy Play Groups, Doggy Daycare and Dog Parks:
The Best of Canine Times or the Worst?
©2004 Myrna M. Milani, DVM
Until about 5-10 years ago, the idea of socializing a pup referred to accustoming that animal to a variety of different people under different circumstances. We wanted to do this because domestic dogs live in a human world and those who get along well with people fare better than those who don't. However, in the past decade or so, there has a been a shift in emphasis from socializing dogs and people to socializing dogs and other dogs.
I suspect multiple reasons have contributed to the shift. Almost certainly guilt plays a role. As human lifestyles have become more and more complex, our dogs mean more to us. The more they mean to us, the more we feel obligated to atone for our complex lives. What better way to do this than to allow our dogs the opportunity to romp with their own kind, to become one with their inner dog?
Although that sounds idyllic, this approach ignores several realities that I find increasingly troubling. First, the human species has spent more than 10,000 years domesticating dogs so dogs would prefer human over canine companionship. This serves as the hallmark behavior that separates domestic from wild canines. Do we really want to encourage dogs to play by canine rather than human rules at the same time we demand more of them in their intimate interactions with us? (For a nice overview of how complex the typical human-canine relationship has become, read Jon Katz's The New Work of Dogs published by Villard.)
Second, such canine group activities assume that all dogs want to be with other dogs. In reality, some dogs are normally more semi-solitary and much prefer the company of people to that of other canines. In their book, Dogs: A Startling New Understanding of Canine Origin, Behavior, and Evolution (Scribner, 2001), Raymond Coppinger and Lorna Coppinger make a very compelling case for dismissing the traditional human-tames-wolf view of domestic canine origins in favor of one in which more solitary wolves opted to scavenge human waste rather than run with the pack. Although we may never know exactly how this came about, it seems logical that whatever behaviors made those first proto-dogs more tolerant of humans simultaneously isolated them from those highly social wolves who survived by keeping as much distance between their packs and humans as possible. It also seems that humans would be more tolerant of single animals displaying this new behavior rather than a whole pack.
Consequently, it should neither surprise nor trouble us to discover that there are domestic dogs with little desire to interact with members of their own species. This does not, in any way, mean that these dogs are antagonistic toward other dogs; they're just not interested. Sadly, some folks may erroneously believe that there is something "wrong" with these dogs and thus they keep taking their pets to playgroups or other multi-dog activities in order to "fix" them. Those who realize this is normal behavior find these animals make wonderful companions.
The third reality that group canine activities often ignore is that not all inter-canine relationships are good ones. Although some owners do just want to provide their healthy, well-behaved pets with canine companionship, the motives of others who engage in such activities is not so pure. A fair number take their pets to dog parks or doggy day care because their pets have behavioral problems which they hope these activities will somehow magically cure.
"Once Max gets used to playing with a lot of pups, I'm sure he won't be so timid," insists Tony Worthington.
"Scooter has way too much energy. That's why he trashes the house when I'm gone," declares Mary Klusic. "Putting him in daycare gives him the opportunity to burn it off."
"I'm sure Poochie is so edgy because he needs more exercise," adds Tammy Rayburn. "That's why I bring him to the dog park and turn him loose."
Admittedly some timid dogs do toughen up when tossed into a sink-or-swim canine environment in which they must learn to stick up for themselves if they don't want the other dogs to bully them mercilessly. However, a very real risk exists that those bullies are there because of aggression problems. Surely we don't need a crystal ball to see what could happen when these two different kinds of dogs meet: the more aggressive dogs will overwhelm and bully the more timid ones, the net result being that each dog's problems will be reinforced rather than lessened by the experience. When we add these dogs to all those whose owners seek a contained canine environment because their dogs will not respond to their commands, does this sound like a place where a dog will learn good habits?
Given all that, I don't think we can overlook the final reality of canine social experiences which is that our desire for the companionship of other humans more than any desire for our dogs to experience quality canine companionship might fuel a lot of these activities. In spite of how complex our lives are, a lot of us are lonely. Puppy playgroups and dog parks provide us with an opportunity to socialize that comes with the added benefit of a built-in topic of conversation. Unlike sitting in a singles bar or going to a party with a bunch of strangers with whom we can only hope to broach some subject of mutual interest, those involved in canine activities always know that they can talk about dogs.
So what's the final verdict on these activities? My advice is that old caveat, let the buyer beware. For sure, I would never view these as a quick and fun problem-solver. Although they might be in some (rare) cases, in others they'll make existing problems worse or create new ones. I would also strongly recommend observing these activities sans dog to ensure you aren't enrolling your dog in a free-roaming, unsupervised dog pack. Ideally, puppy play groups should be moderated by a highly stable, mature dog as well as a knowledgeable trainer. The sessions should be short and end with calming human-canine interactions such as massage. Get references from doggy daycare centers and find out what kinds of dogs attend that facility: Are they well-behaved pets or are they problem animals who would destroy the house and alienate the neighbors in the owner's absence? Check out any dog parks scrupulously, going on a daily basis for at least a full week to determine what kinds of dogs go there, their health and behavioral status, and how responsible and capable their owners are of cleaning up after and controlling their pets.
And finally, don't forget to ask why you think your dog needs this kind of activity. If your pet is well-behaved and healthy, chances are that he or she is perfectly content to spend time with you rather than other dogs. Does that mean that you can't engage in these activities because you enjoy the companionship of other people who like dogs, too? Not at all. However, just be sure to select those activities that will meet your dog's needs as well as your own.
If canines of any age experience behavioral problems such shyness, timidity, separation anxiety, or aggression, discuss these problems with someone knowledgeable about both animal behavior and the human-animal bond before involving that dog in any canine group activities. That way these dogs won't be placed in activities and environments that makes their problems worse rather than better.
By keeping these few considerations in mind, we can make informed decisions about if group activities will benefit our pets and, if so, which ones will do this in a way that's the most rewarding for both them and ourselves.