"alpha" roll during grooming..

[wot_racing]

I had Duke at my dad's finance company yesterday, and we were sitting in the back waiting on Dad to get off work to go walking... I had Duke's undercoat rake with me, as I use it to occupy him when we have to wait. I was brushing him like I always do, I work his back, and his sides, and he lets me roll him on his back and do his chest and belly... About the time I rolled him onto his back, dad's co-worker, who is also the English Bull Dog trainer that helped me in the past walked in, and yelled for me to "stop that now!".. Not knowing if something was wrong, I stopped and asked him what was wrong... HE told me that I had just "alpha rolled" duke and he would attack me one day for that... I do this daily, and have for months, and I dont see what the trouble is... I dont have to wrestle with him, he just knows to roll over and he will get his belly scratched... Is there an underlying danger here that I dont see?

[Chantal]

I'd like to see what others say about this. My girls will roll on their backs for a tummy rub quite often

[Burnsway]

If he went on his back without you forcing him you did not Alpha Roll him. An Alpha roll is when you are correcting a dog for unwanted behavior and force the dog on his back, belly up and hold in position until the dog becomes submissive and looks away.(Not a method I ever suggest to use) The Trainer was correct that a true Alpha roll can back fire but I think he was being a bit cocky assuming that duke on his back getting his belly scratched and combed was you Alpha Rolling.........

[wot_racing]

Thats what I thought.. He was making it sound like ANY TIME he rolled on his back it was an alpha roll and I was in danger.. I didnt think he was right...

[Burnsway]

Some dogs that roll on their back often for no reason are being fearful and submissive and may bite out of fear.(May be where the trainer came up with that) I often hear people ask why their dog nipped at them all they were doing is scratching the belly. But this is different, that is not a forced Alpha Roll. You need to kow your dogs language and know if he is comfortable with you rubbing and combing his belly.

[wot_racing]

He is on his back his legs relaxed, and his head back with his toungue hangins out, and he is grumbling.. Seems to be enjoying it to me..

[lblax]

ha ha ha ha how else are you going to brush his stomach :D even if you have to physically roll him over the whole mind set and circumstances would be differant than a alpha roll

[Judi W]

Well, you could lie underneath the dog I guess............ Not possible with a bulldog. Bet his dog has a dirty tummy.

That is almost too silly to even worry about at all.

[lblax]

Originally Posted by Judi W

Well, you could lie underneath the dog I guess.............

ha you could get one of those creepers like mechanics use!!!!!!!!!!

[LavenderRott]

He is on his back his legs relaxed, and his head back with his toungue hangins out, and he is grumbling.. Seems to be enjoying it to me..

Sounds like your guy is having a great time! Sounds to me like everyone thinks your dog is going to eat you!

[jas'smom]

Originally Posted by Judi W

Well, you could lie underneath the dog I guess............ Not possible with a bulldog. Bet his dog has a dirty tummy.

That is almost too silly to even worry about at all.

can you imagine trying to brush a dachund??? (did I spell that right?? ) anyway one of the weiner dogs :D :D How would you get under them???

Seriously, my Jasmine LOVES to be brushed and rolls over with her belly exposed so I can get all the good spots. She will lie there even after I have finished, kick out a bit with her back legs to get me to do somemore! :)

[wot_racing]

Originally Posted by LavenderRott

Sounds like your guy is having a great time! Sounds to me like everyone thinks your dog is going to eat you!

I am in an area where you buy a dog, you chain him up, and feed him once a day.. And I have NEVER seen anyone walking a rottweiler.. The only two that i even know about being in the county was one that my girlfriends grandfather had, and one that was found by sherrifs deputies, and ended up being euthanized... People here dont know what a rottweiler really is.. They think its just a man eater...

I have ofter been told I treat him too good.. But I dont think thats possible.. The better I treat him the better he will treat me.. At least that's my view of it...

[LORHEL]

I'm not sure what the exact definition is, but I can tell you simply rolling the dog gently for a belly rubbing appears to be fine.

I had a fear biter puppy. We were mistakenly very naiive the first time around. He had quite a few issues. Hence, the idiot trainer we took him to advised us each time he became "out of control" to do the alpha roll on him. This guy did a demonstration in class when Zeke decided he didn't want this guy putting his hands on him. He threw him into this position, held him at his throat and bodywise. My pup was scarred from that and never got over it. He did have many more problems besides this, and he was wrong for trying to go at the guy, however, this guy made a snide comment regarding this while throwing him to the floor and doing this. Then we were taught at the time, to do it when clipping nails, since Zeke didn't like to have that done either....it was like the exorcist and we really ruined our relationship with him in the formative puppyhood period doing that.

I hope this helps understand. I currently have a 4 year old female who LIVES for bellyrubs....and when clipping nails, I will gently roll her onto her side for that, however I don't consider that an alpha roll.

I think holding the dog down is the worst part of it all, and I am a firm believer it will come back to bite you in your xxx.....with some dogs.. there are more effective and positive ways to assert yourself than this method.

[Luvs]

I think that trainer REALLY over reacted. LIke others have said, he did it on his own and you did not force him. Keil LUVS to have his belly rubbed and will flop onto his back if your hand is anywhere near the vicinity of his belly. Heck he even lays on his back and holds out his paws for the dremmel. :D

[Brooke&Ryan]

Originally Posted by Luvs

I think that trainer REALLY over reacted. LIke others have said, he did it on his own and you did not force him. Keil LUVS to have his belly rubbed and will flop onto his back if your hand is anywhere near the vicinity of his belly.

Sounds like Jules. I came out into the yard to groom him the other day & he saw the shedding blade & came galloping towards me full steam. Once he reached my feet he flopped on his back with all paws in the air waiting to be brushed.

:D
Brooke