HBO Documentary- Shelter Dogs

[Wookie'sMom]

Yes there are dogs out there that are honestly unadoptable. I understand this, I understand that with the overpopulation that we have some of them have to die senselessly. I don't see how hiding the fact that these dogs are dying is helping the overpopulation issue at all. I don't see how they are "no-kill" shelters, especially since the temperment testing and killing are taking place of sensible spay/neuter initiatives. Sue Sternburg is actually marketing this idea as a way to make shelters throuhout the country "no-kill". I don't see how you can read the following quote and think what this woman is doing is right.

In one particularly insightful scene, a small, black and frightened Cocker Spaniel is brought to her shelter. The poor dog is, clearly, suffering from neglect. He has ear infections. He is badly matted and in need of grooming. Without temperament testing the dog, Sternberg recommends ending the dog's life. Her staff objects, suggesting that until the ear infections are healed, and the grooming issues are addressed, they cannot effectively temperament test the dog to determine its adoptability. Sternberg tells the staff that she does not "feel" the dog will test well. However, after some argument with the staff, she agrees to hold off killing the dog until after it is stabilized and tested.

An even more telling scene comes when the dog is temperament tested by Sternberg for resource guarding behavior. Initially, Sternberg gives the dog a large bowl of very tempting food, a mix of kibble and canned food to ensure that it is eager to eat the meal. She then takes an artificial hand and begins to remove food from the dish while the dog is eating. Initially, there is no reaction from the dog. So she increases the stimulation on the dog. She begins pulling the dish away and poking the dog with the artificial hand, and continues to do this for quite some time, until the dog begins to display some mild resource guarding behavior. At that time, she removes the food and gives the dog a pig's ear and continues the poking and prodding in a more aggressive manner, which, to me, appeared to border on abuse.

Not surprisingly, the dog eventually becomes aggressive, at which time, Sternberg pulls out her own video camera and films the aggressive behavior. She then shows the tape to her staff to explain to them why she had to put the dog to sleep. No discussion about resource guarding behavior in dogs, or how dogs that exhibit this behavior can be trained. It appears she approached the temperament test expecting a specific outcome, and that she did whatever she could to achieve that outcome.

[PuppyLover]

Polly from your quote then I would say the lady is very wrong. Any dog under those circumstances would get mad. I have never seen these test done other than on Animal Precinct and thankfully they don't test that aggressively.

[Wookie'sMom]

I don't disagree with temperment testing entirely, but it makes me so mad that this woman is gaining publicity from a very happy feel-good documentary about the messed up things that she's doing. Her shelters are NOT no-kill, and I don't think it's really realistic to have a no-kill shelter at all. All she is doing is killing a lot of dogs that would make great pets and hiding the fact that she is doing so behind a facade of "no-kill". I think that it should be publicized far and wide that thousands of pets are killed daily in our country, maybe some of the people who previously didn't know would think twice about breeding their "really nice" dog and think about adopting rather than buying from a mill/byb/pet store.

[angel girl]

I don't disagree with temperament testing when done with the knowledge that the dog was dumped for a reason. And that reason is more often than not because the dog has issues that the current "family" is not willing to take care of. And most of these issues are behavioral (or just misdirected energies).

Also consider that a shelter is a stressful environment to most dogs. Bound to cause false positives for aggression.

Note: By the descriptions of her tests I know Lucky, my ShepXBorder Collie would fail miserably. She does not fawn over strangers, in fact, unless a family member is present and hands off the leash she will not permit physical contact of any kind. She will not eat food offered by strangers, just ask the kennel owner when we boarded her last Thanksgiving. He was trying to bait her with turkey after 2 days of not eating anything and she would not take it. She becomes extremely stressed in a kennel, barking, circling, pacing, and as mentioned not eating.
However, I know with family and friends she is sweet, lovy, pet-me-pet-me, feed-me-feed-me. I can put my hand (a real one, not a fake one) in her dish at any time, take the bowl away, wrestle and touch any part of her body, including inside her mouth. Ya know why? Because she TRUSTS me.

[jakesfostermom]

Well, if I was completely honest here I would tell you that I thought this was BS!!!! My initial response is that she is playing GOD.....that black cocker seemed no more aggressive than any of my dogs. And if she tortured one of mine with fake hand while they were eating and then had a prized rawhide -she would likely get her real hand bit! How many times did she say "that's the worse case of aggression I've ever seen" She feels better by sending the cocker to the bridge with a belly fully of ????ty McDonalds nuggets.....

Now - that's just my sensitive gut speaking above - the one that believes that all dogs should be given a chance...and possibly HBO could not show everything that was done to try and save those dogs that were put down. I looked around my living room and one by one, saw her putting each of my beloved dogs to sleep.....the two rotties, the two dalmatians, the pit bull mix, the lab puppy.....and the tears just flowed.....NONE of my dogs deserve to be put down - but in her testing methods - they would all be at the bridge!!!! I don't know how I really feel - we have to find a way to make pet owners understand that these beautiful animals are not throw away items like last years spring dress.......

[Brooke&Ryan]

Originally Posted by jakesfostermom

Well, if I was completely honest here I would tell you that I thought this was BS!!!! My initial response is that she is playing GOD.....that black cocker seemed no more aggressive than any of my dogs. And if she tortured one of mine with fake hand while they were eating and then had a prized rawhide -she would likely get her real hand bit! How many times did she say "that's the worse case of aggression I've ever seen" She feels better by sending the cocker to the bridge with a belly fully of ????ty McDonalds nuggets.....

Now - that's just my sensitive gut speaking above - the one that believes that all dogs should be given a chance...and possibly HBO could not show everything that was done to try and save those dogs that were put down. I looked around my living room and one by one, saw her putting each of my beloved dogs to sleep.....the two rotties, the two dalmatians, the pit bull mix, the lab puppy.....and the tears just flowed.....NONE of my dogs deserve to be put down - but in her testing methods - they would all be at the bridge!!!! I don't know how I really feel - we have to find a way to make pet owners understand that these beautiful animals are not throw away items like last years spring dress.......

Very well said.... :)

[spiccers]

That test on the cocker spaniel looked more like tormenting then it did testing.

[frontierrots]

I should have warned you guys that HER testing of temperament as compared to other groups (like NERR, whose test is BASED upon her test) is a bit over the top... :(

Then again Sue S is also well known for stating that there are NO adoptable dogs in the Northeast and all dogs in our shelters here should be PTS and we should get dogs shipped up from elsewhere, where the dogs have better temperaments!

[RottiMomCT]

If you get a really good look at the fake hand used by the folks on Animal Precinct, it has Sue Sternbergs name on it.

99.999% of the shelters out there that use an evaluation base their evaluation on Sternbergs process.

The eval usually starts off calm and slowly begins to add stressors. Everyone should enter the evaluation process expecting the dog to bite.

Do I agree with what Sternberg does? Hell no - I don't feel she gives dogs a chance, and if she feels the dog will show aggression, she will push the dog until it does, and tape the 'aggression' to prove her point. How do I know this?? I've been to her shelter and seen her evaluation process. While I feel the eval is a good assesment of a dog in a shelter environment, it seems she will push a dog she personally does not like to show aggression to save herself from making excuses for the dog...

[rotts and roses]

I am watching this right now and after the watching what she did to Beau, I am in tears. That dog did NOT deserve to die. If she thought he was " so damn aggressive" why would she sit there and hand feed him little pieces of Mcnuggets??I think she killed the dog to make herself look good, like "see I told you he is mean" I wonder what the other workers thought when they see this in entirety and see that she PUSHED that dog over the edge. She kept on poking and prodding him until he bit the fake hand.I would have bitten the bitch myself! She said he was aggressive just minutes after he was brought in and he had not done ANYTHING to warrant that. I think she has a dislike for certain dogs and has it in her head that they are all mean* kind of like the rottweiler stigmata*

[rottnkidd]

I don't think I had a dry eye but for a few minutes. This program was very disturbing and very upsetting. I felt so badly for the cocker. I think the fake hand test was really overused. My girl isn't food aggressive, but I can't help but think if I, or someone else was poking and prodding her and her bowl with the use of that 'hand', while she'd be trying to eat, she would more then likely nail it. Who in the their right ming would be putting their ACTUAL hand all over a dog and in and out of its bowl when it's trying to eat. I see a point to using the 'hand', but not to the extent it was used at this shelter. I really was moved by Aggie the 12 yr old shep mix. The staff was all so fond of her, and what a wonderful dog she was. Then why did she end up euthanized? I thought all of the pomp and circumstance involved in the taking of her life was a bit over the top. They should've put that much energy into saving it. She was such a calm, docile dog. Couldn't they have made room for her to liver her life out at the shelter, or in one of their homes? I'm well aware that shelter work isn't easy and that certainly all dogs (unfortunately) can't be placed; either due to age, illness or 'issues'. I guess I was hoping some other efforts could've been made to help these dogs, especially the old girl.
Best wishes -
kathy

[Brooke&Ryan]

Oh man, now I'm a bit hesitant to watch it. My friend, who has HBO (I do not) taped it for me but since we've had so much snow I haven't received it yet.

I know that I'll be bawling. :( Even after volunteering at the SPCA for four years has never hardened me to the plight of the animals.

Also, re: the hand used in the test. I have always thought that was a bit of a silly test. I guess silly isn't the correct term but at the moment I'm having a brain fart. On Animal Cops they'll bring a dog in who has been starved almost to death & then a week or two later they'll be trying to yank the dog away from the dish with the fake arm or trying to rip the dish away from the dog. It's never made sense to me. I would think that 90% of the dogs that were starved would have food issues & then most would be PTS.

Brooke

[SABELLESMOM]

I began watching this last night. In the very beginning, there were some very sad, sad things happening. Usually I have to change the channel because I'm I can only stand so much sadness. (remember 9-11? I watched in bits and pieces after the initial hits on the news)

I thought it would be like that for me again. So I expected to be changing the channel. Sable and Digbee both became disturbed at the sound of the dogs whining and crying in the kennels! It was as if they could actually understand the dogs were sad or afraid. Weird! Sable, expecially, acted quite stressed. It was as if she was trying to get me to do something to stop it. She'd get up and walk to the TV and come back to me and whine, etc. She'd cock her head, and grab my hand like she does when she wants something.

I changed the channel, and was able to watch more later. Did anyone else's DOG have a problem? Or is mine the only weird one out there?

[Brooke&Ryan]

Originally Posted by SABELLESMOM

I changed the channel, and was able to watch more later. Did anyone else's DOG have a problem? Or is mine the only weird one out there?

Since I haven't watched it yet I really can't say. But, the Peta link in the "Breeding" section that Christy posted seemed to affect Julius. He's not a vocal dog at all. While I was watching it & all the dog's are barking & whining he just started whining & carrying on (which he almost never does) & then he proceeded to come sit beside me & put his head in my lap.

But, I was crying & so maybe he was trying to soothe me or upset because I was upset?? I don't know....

Brooke

[RottiMomCT]

Originally Posted by Brooke&Ryan

Also, re: the hand used in the test. I have always thought that was a bit of a silly test. I guess silly isn't the correct term but at the moment I'm having a brain fart. On Animal Cops they'll bring a dog in who has been starved almost to death & then a week or two later they'll be trying to yank the dog away from the dish with the fake arm or trying to rip the dish away from the dog. It's never made sense to me. I would think that 90% of the dogs that were starved would have food issues & then most would be PTS.

I'd rather use the fake hand (yes, I have one and it's missing a finger and the 'palm' has puncture wounds) than my own hand to see if a dog is going to bite me when testing it for food aggression. If the dog shows no problem with the fake hand, I have certainly used my own hand to pet the dog and then move the food bowl.

We had a dog at the shelter who should have been about 90 pounds - he weighed 40 pounds and was beyond starved for everything, food, attention, human contact...you name it, I think he never got it. He was filthy (covered in feces and urine), terrified of sudden movements and hated to be kenneled.

He spent 2 weeks at the vet to make sure he was simply starved and not sick, where he gained about 10 pounds, then he came to me for several more weeks so we could get some weight on him.

Obviously, even at the weight he was at I was dang sure gonna test him with food issues just for my own safety as well as the safety of my own dog. Well, he didn't care about anything - he actually stopped eating and came to me for attention when he saw me approaching him. when I told him to go eat he looked at his bowl and then back at me and I sat next to him and petted him while he ate.

Once he had gained about another 10 pounds, I let him and Ben get to know each other. THAT was funny...I've never seen Ben play so gently with a dog except for a puppy, but he seemed to know that he had to be a bit more gentle with this boy.

He spent a month with me before he was put on the shelter website, and was adopted about 2 weeks after that. He was a smart boy, eager to please, food motivated which made obedience and crate training a breeze :D , and he quickly proved that even though he had nothing in life when he came to me, he didn't hold a grudge against humans because of it.

Do I agree with Sternbergs philosophy that there are no adoptable dogs in the Northeast? Hell no, but her methods of testing a shelter dog have made sure that those that are truly adoptable get a second chance at life.