Rottweilers & children: Best case scenarios

[ILoveRotts]

Well, here I go again- I respectfully disagree.

As the mother of a 19 month old human child and 3 (yes you read that right 3) Rotts and now a Shar-pei puppy, I think a blanket statement about ownership is incorrect. My Rotts are great with my daughter. They have been well trained and socialized and are very careful around her.

I don't recommend that the average owner get a new puppy of ANY breed with an infant in the house. We got the shar-pei for our daughter but my husband is a trainer and Lucy was 16 months old. It works great for us.

My daughter has been with the Rotts since she came home from the hospital. She feeds them Cheerios and they take them ever so gently out of her hands. Never a bite. She is monitored closely at all times.
Once again, I will qualify that we are not the average owner - so don't flame me.

[Storm's mom]

Los1,

When I posted my message I should have said that for all breeds it would be unrealistic to put a young child together with a dog never mind a working breed. My son pulls my hair, bites me, head butts me and will step on any part of my body. No dog should have to put up with that.

[cryjay]

I do agree with the OP. I also think that it should be used for people questioning about this breed and having children there are a lot of good points and it is well written. However, there is the exception, as with anything in life, that it will work with some families and young children. I have two children aged 4 and 3. I have two adult rottweilers, and of course 8 little rottie pups (which we plan on keeping one). I am lucky though to be a home engineer and have the time to raise, train and give enough attention and affection to all. I think that is where alot comes in for me when owning dogs and having small children. Also, constant obedience training does come into big play here with the dogs and our being succesful with them. I will admit, when we rescued our one rottie, I was a little aprehensive at first because he was older and was trained differently than mine, but I have been able to take and spend the time with him to fit him into our home so he can live his last couple of years out knowing he is loved and well. Balance and patience is very necessary for anything to succeed. I homeschool my children so they are also home with me all the time and constantly around our dogs and cats. I will never give ANY dog so much trust as to leave my children alone with them though and I think this is another huge mistake so many parents make. They think their dog would never do anything because in front of them they can jump around with the dog and what not and they have the best behaved dog in the world. Well, I think my dogs are the best behaved in the world and very trustworthy, but I would never allow them that much trust, it is just my own self knowing enough to always make sure my children have a complete safe haven.

Sorry for such a long post :).

Warm wishes,

cryjay

[JeanT]

Originally Posted by los1

... So what makes you think the ones who did give their dogs up actaually gives the correct reason instead of the 1 they know will work?

What is the one reason they know will work versus the correct reason? Do you mean the honest reason as opposed to the correct reason? Which category do these reasons fall into:

- He got too big
- He jumps on everybody and is too stupid to learn not to
- He growled at my toddler when she jumped onto his back from the sofa
- He's supposed to guard my house but instead he just wiggles and wants to lick everyone who comes by
- He's not friendly, he growls at everyone who comes to my house and scares them
- He's no fun for my children to play with now that his HD is causing him so much pain that he can hardly get up
- He won't stay out in the backyard like a normal dog - he always wants to hang around me and I'm really tired of tripping over him
- I'm thinking of moving and he won't fit into my new lifestyle
- I would take him to the vet to have him PTS because I'm a nice person, but it costs too much because he's so big, so I'm going to give him a chance to have a good life with a new family who can adopt him from the shelter

Maybe I have not hit on the "one right answer" yet...

[Judi W]

No request to give up the dog, (yet), but very sadly we quite recently had an OP whose dog had not once, but twice bitten their toddler at the food dish. Without getting into any discussion of hows or whys of food guarding, this is still a very very small child who was twice bitten. We also just finished a long thread regarding a young adolscent dog who was threatening and biting the household children and it was not realized that it was a problem until he started in on the adults. That one I believe is getting well in hand and I am sure the children are appreciative. Now, in neither of these cases were the bites deemed serious - which means that no one ended up in the ER or anything, but still children were being hazarded in their own homes.

I had adult Rottweilers in my home from before my first child was born. They did very well together. I am a trainer and yes, I believe that does make a difference. Much of the OP's point was the need for attention and training and work with this breed does not diminish just because there are children and everyone is busy.

Instead of taking it personally, please consider that it is generalized information and recommendation, not an edict. Those of you who have excellent family dogs surely should acknowlege that it has taken some decent degree of attention, discipline, and knowlege in order to have these fit together well. You are to be complimented, but do not ignore the many who do not understand the effort and responsibilities involved. It is certainly more than many who have little or no dog experience are usually equipped to deal with and they are often blindsided.

It should also be understood that some dogs of any breed, simply fit nicely with children and other individuals do not without great effort and work. With a dog as large, and strong minded as the Rottweiler size can indeed make a difference.

So, don't be personally offended and defensive. Instead be complimented that you are doing a good job and that you might have gotten one of those naturally good-with-children dogs, or if you did not, pat yourselves on the back for putting in the work it takes to make a good family dog.

[Miabella]

I think this is a good post, and important stuff to think about. In fact, it mirrors my own feelings in regards to my personal life.

I'm not sure my next dog will be a Rottweiler, despite my love of the breed. I've owned 2 myself and fostered a bunch of others, and I do alot of training, so I do think I'm a qualified owner for most dogs. But I am also planning to have a baby in about 4-5 years.

My current dogs will be pretty elderly by that time, and we will certainly be dogless while my child is a toddler. I know that my current Rottweiler is very intense; she needs serious daily training, no joke. She is training for her CDX now, but I know that if I stopped training, we would have a pretty big problem on our hands in 6 months or less.

I also know my limits, and I will not be able to give a new dog that kind of daily work with a little kid and working full-time. As much as I would like to, I know it's just not gonna happen.

So I am seriously thinking of getting a less intense dog for my next one. I feel a bit like a traitor, but I think it would be worse to get a Rottie and not be able to do a good job with it.

So I guess the whole point of my post is that people need to be realistic and know their limits.

[shybird]

Well I have to agree that it is a good post. Designed to make you think before you do purchase. I think this goes for all animals, THINK before you you leap in.

The only correct answer to giving up your pet to a shelter, is that you DIED. You buy the puppy, you be responsible for it for its entire life. If you think the dog is failing, you did something wrong. Hire another trainer for yourself and the dog before it fails.

PLEASE THINK BEFORE GETTING ANIMAL. ARE YOU REALLY SURE YOU CAN COMMIT FOR LIFE?

[Luvs]

Great thread!

I agree that in MOST instances getting a puppy while having very small children is not a good idea. There are some cases where things work out well, but for the majority of people out there, it is not advisable.

Too many people think their small children should be allowed to do ANYTHING to the dog, and the dog should willingly sit there and allow it. It is so unfair to the dog.

Several days ago at work we had a 7 yo girl who was bitten severely by the family pit bull. The little girls 5 yo sister was playing tug of war with the dog and the 7yo came up behind the dog and grabbed her tail and started pulling. The family dog turned around and bit the 7yo in the face. The little girl was injured pretty badly. The mother was sitting right there and when she saw the 7yo grab the dogs tail she started to tell her to stop, but before she could get the words out of her mouth, it was too late. :( I feel so bad for the little girl and the dog, who will now be put to sleep.
The family was shocked, they said the little girl had done this to the dog in the past and the dog had never done anything before.

[Burnsway]

I agree with the overall content but I disagree with stereo typing parents. I see threads like the one I just read about bringing a 1yr old in a dog park and her Rottie got so called protective of the baby and also threads like the one JudiW mentioned and I can completely understand why everyone would agree with this content. But It upsets me that rescues and responsible reputable breeders might all go to this line of thinking. That forces people like me to go BYB's and crappy rescues to be able to get a Rottweiler.

My husband and I are real close to adding another dog. We both are pretty sure that a Rottweiler or mix of is our first choice. I have an 11 yr old but she was only 7 almost 8 when we got Psyche. I also plan on having another baby one day soon I hope. If I had followed this line of thinking I would have missed out on so much. A challenging fun dog, I probably would have never found the forum, The extra education.....etc. What a shame if I had missed out on all that just because I was grouped into a opinionated essay like this one that Rottweilers and children just don't belong in the same household.

I also think that it should not be breed specific. Their are about 20 other breeds that can fit in that same category. I think the overall warnings in the message is pretty good but I just hope rescues and breeders would take cases one on one because if they all followed this line of thinking Bruce wouldn't be getting Rothe either.......

[bump]

I have three kids - teenager, preteen and kindergartner.
I have 4 dogs - 1 rott, 3 bc's - all working dogs.

In order that everyone, kids and dogs, live safely with one another, I have trained my children as consistently as the dogs in appropriate behavior.

The kids know not to mess with the dogs when they are eating, to touch them gently, not to scream or run around them, etc....

The dogs know not to mess with the kids when they have food, to no jump or nip at them, and to obey their house commands, etc....

If I hadn't been willing to put in the time and effort to train kids and dogs, I wouldn't have the dogs.

[RottieGirl86]

Ok, I tend to disagree with this post - however - it should be geared more towards - people who 'think' they know what they are doing by getting a Rottweiler, but don't...

You *will* have trouble with a dog/puppy & toddler/baby - if you don't set up boundaries and be diligent.

You *will* have trouble with a dog/puppy & toddler/baby - if you don't educate your kids not to abuse the dog/puppy and vice versa ( it's called play manners, sadly few people teach this to kids even if they don't have dogs/puppies.)

You *will* have trouble with a dog/puppy & toddler/baby - if you are not alpha, if your dog/puppy doesn't understand what you want, if you are too lazy to train.


You *will* have trouble with a dog/puppy & toddler/baby - if you think that the TV is great for raising kids and beating a dog is good training technique.

My brother *twice* has had Rottweilers when he had a baby - as recent as last spring. This time the rott was an adult, last time (1990) the dog *was* a puppy. When they got Max, my step -nephew was 3 years old. he learned how to treat the 'puppy' (parent's term for kid to understand) nice.


While I agree generalizations can be made, they cannot be sweeping. People who come here are not the usual population - a post like this may help - but, usually they already have the dog and may not have laid the groundwork for it. So, they don't want the puppy/dog while the child is young. Why? because it requires time. You reap what you sow.

Don't work with puppy/dog, it maybe touch sensitive and never grow out of it. Kids like to pull ears = bite. May not have bite inhibition, etc. These peopel want a quick fix usually and won't invest the time, so dog goes to pound or bites someone then goes to the pound.

The girl that pulled the dogs tail, she needs a CTJ moment. She doesn't know how to respect animals, so the animal let her know. Bet she has some issues too with other kids ( don't start me on the day care since 6 months old, these behavior issues are usually deep rooted and rarely seen by the parent, but by an outsider) No child with nice 'play manners' would just pull on a dog's tail & not expect a reaction. Wonder what she'd do if the dog could pull her hair? /ponder.

Me - when I was a kid, I would have gotten the belt. Now, parents get arrested for that, but telling little Susan to be 'nice' won't have any meaning if the child doesn't respect your authority. I used to work retail, I know how some parents let their kids run wild and think the kid is just 'expressing themselves. '

Guess what? I can almost guarentee the dog doesn't respect the parent/owner either, which is why the owners want to get rid of it.


Almost anything is doable if you invest the time.

[vshund]

Back again after evaluating the latest casualty of harried parents and kids and dogs.

The dog is a beautiful guy. Largish, very strong, well developed head and nicely balanced structure considering this is a BYB dog. He's friendly, exuberant, high drive and not "dominant" in the sense that he will be a pack leader in the right household. He needs serious training by a qualified adult, and will be an excellent competition dog for agility, traditional obedience and perhaps even schutzhund if someone wants to invest the time and energy in a neutered male. This dog is way too much for a family with 3 small kids. I've recommended only placement with an experienced Rottie person with older children or none. I'm tempted to take him.

Thank you for all the great comments about my message. It wasn't meant to slam all parents or lump on the breed. I LOVE this breed best of all. I want them to stay legal and that means less of them in the hands of novices and uninformed, non-training people. Often that means people with small children.

As Judy W. and Miabella and Jean T. have noted my original message is intended for parents who love or want the breed and who have or are planning on children. I stick to my guns on this one. I see way too many dogs given up for two reasons primarily. Number one is "moving" and number two is "too much for the kids". I work with two large shelters, one a kill shelter, other one is non-kill of "adoptable" animals. Meaning they PTS too but evaluate first.

A Rottweiler is a big, strong, genetically predisposed and selected dog for a working purpose. As Miabella noted her own Rottweiler is high maintenance in terms of constant training. A dog like that wouldn't be an ideal dog for a family with small kids and infants. She's a qualified trainer but here she is, being totally honest about having LIMITS. Too many people fail to realize their limits and have way too many expectations of the poor dog. You wouldn't believe how many people turn a dog into the shelter with the complaint that the poor dog "didn't listen good" as if the dog came with an automatic English translator! It's so disheartening to see this every single day.

I don't want to see more Rottweilers out there. I want to see less. I do actively DIScourage people now from owning a Rottweiler even though people love my dogs. But they only love them because I've spent countless hours training, training, training. Inside our home the dogs have limits and must behave a certain way because I took the time to train them to understand what I want them to do. I didn't expect them to know by osmosis.

The shelters where I volunteer won't adopt most large working breeds to people with children under 12 years. It's very rare. They won't adopt to college students either. The kids must come into the shelters to meet the staff and volunteers first for any pet. I get to evaluate the kids as well as the dogs and kids together. I often veto a selected dog for a family with kids because the kids are undisciplined, overly excited, jumping around, screaming, mauling the dogs and parents are lacking in the desire to correct or train them. If I see that, I know this family won't train the dog. It's as simple as that. Not meant to offend but that's the truth.

I remember my first dog as a kid. It was a beagle-terrier mix. I was 3 years old and the pup was very docile and friendly. Photos depict an obviously well cared for little dog. My parents were and are big dog lovers. Unfortunately my parents landlord later insisted the dog go, despite the fact he was bidable and well trained by my mom. The dog went to my cousins. Within 4 months the dog had become a biter and was fearfully aggressive. He spent most days hiding under the living room sofa. Why? Because my two young cousins constantly assaulted the dog, tortured him with their mishandling and teased him merciliessly. He became an ankle biter literally. My dad was incensed and wanted the dog back but the stupid cousins wouldn't agree. Later poor Sidney the dog was taken to the SPCA. He was put down because they said he was "uncontrollable" and a biter.

In hindsight I know they turned him into a biter because the cousins abused the dog. Sadly this isn't an uncommon occurence.

I'd hate to see one more Rottweiler be put down because a kid or kids were bitten by mishandled and untrained dogs. Better that the breed lose popularity and become once again more rare.

I'd rather see no Rottweilers in families with small kids and first time or new to the breed owners even if it works in a very small minority of families. It only works because someone takes the time to train and teach their child and they have the time. Most parents I know simply don't have that time. It might be a "generalization" but all too often these kinds of generalizations are all too true.


I disagree with the person who wrote that the policy of not adopting or selling a Rottweiler to a home with small children would force the family to a BYB or "crappy rescues". The problem is the dogs found in most shelters came from people who went to BYBs and then found out that the dog was "too much to handle" which is the other infamous reason they're given up. Meaning the wrong people bought the Rottweiler puppy and then dumped it. Meaning they shouldn't be buying one or rescuing one. If more and more rescues, shelters and breeders wouldn't adopt or sell to people with small kids and if more breeders spay/neutered then we'd be able to put a sizeable dent in the number of Rottweilers dumped and abandoned. That's what will work and cure the problems. Not giving MORE access. Giving LESS access.

Sorry to be somewhat blunt that's the reality right now.

vshund
Valerie Peterson

[Ilovemypuppy]

Valerie Peterson knows what she is talking about with regard to this issue of dogs and small children..she's got first hand experience working with two shelters and sees it all the time..another dog dies because a human couldn't give it the training or environment it deserved. All too often this occurs in families with small children, where, quite frankly, the dog never stood a chance. Getting a puppy or dog as an add on to a busy family with small children isn't fair to the animal and too often leads to horrific headlines.
The breed ban pressure we are seeing against our beloved breed right now, all over North America has been spurred by incidents with children..most often the result of negligence by adults.

Just today, I was talking to a neighbour and she was telling me about how her neice (they raise Labrador Retrievers) has a two year old daughter. The mother went to take a shower and when she came out found the child with a big bottle of goldfish food, eating it herself and feeding it to one of the dogs :(

This woman calls herself a responsible breeder (CKC) and mother. I don't even want to think of what could have happened in this incident. This is a mother who supposedly breeds and trains..so now tell me...homes with small children should have puppies or dogs. They should not..but they probably always will because parents don't think or don't want to think about the possibly that it might be a diseaster waiting to happen.

A couple of months ago, not far from here, a family pet (Cocker Spaniel) bit one of the three children in that family, in the face resulting in many, many stitches. The child was stitched up and the dog was put down. No headlines..not a Rottweiler

[Brooke&Ryan]

I think this is a great post & good read... ;)

:)
Brooke

[Joanne in NJ]

It's not only time, it's money. Perhaps money that isn't there when something else comes up and before you know it. Time gets away from you. I think there's a saying in SAR that applies. "SAR is for the serious, not the well-intentioned".

I probably spend 1000 dollars a year on training (shhhh don't tell my husband) and have been going to classes twice a week for 3 1/2 years now. That's a pretty good hunk of change, never mind trialing fees (and pictures of course!).

On top of which, when I started, for the first 6 months solid, I was out every night practicing after work. If I missed a day, the dog had a hard time setting and if I missed 2 days- she never settled. It's very obvious the people in class who practice and who don't. Those are the people you see one session and never again.

Hard to do if you're a working mom, you have to get kids home from soccer practice or whatever. Cook supper and by the time that's done, you're tired, it's dark and you don't want to go out and work your dog.

So what happens to the dog? There's a woman I work with, got a dog for her kids. Never took it for training although I often invited her to come watch. It isn't even like it's too far for her- now the dog is a couple years old, and she's looking for college money for her kids.

It's also not specific to working breeds. Everybody thinks the sporting breeds make such wonderful family dogs but don't take into account their energy level. Hello... what good is a dog who can't hunt all day? You think they're meant to go hunting for a half hour and quit? Their exercise requirements are a bit higher than that.