A fool and his puppies are too soon parted

[rotts and roses]

This has got me so upset I am livid!
From tonights paper:
1 1/2 year old male rottweiler two, 4 week old male rottweilers
I called this guy out of morbid curiosity, I asked what he wanted for the puppies, " 250.00" "He just got rid of one tonight and has 2 left" I said" Oh?? you are selling them now? at 4 weeks old? he says" yeah they are eating on their own and are old enough to go" I am shaking at this point and sit down as the guy proceeds to go into detail about how he is having marital issues and his wife left 6 days ago, he works 14 hours a day and the puppies can't be alone all day I told him the puppies should stay with their mom until at least 8 weeks. This is his SECOND litter in 1 1/2 years. The 1 1/2 year old male he is selling for $550 is the father of this litter and the bitches son from the first litter!. Then I asked how old the bitch was, he said he thinks she is around 3. I asked if she was OFA-ed.. complete silence for a minute then " HUH???
I said. OFA certified for her hips for displasia. The guy says" what's that?"I about fell over.I explain about hip displasia and he says "Oh she's been to the vet and had ex-rays and blood tests, she is healthy"He goes on to tell me that the parents " are papered" but he can't get the puppies papers.This guy had no clue.
:( At this point I go into to pleading with the guy to let me help him. I calmly told him how important it is that he let the puppies stay with mama for 4 more weeks. I offered to do any thing I possibly could to make that happen.After 2 hours on the phone with this guy, I offered to "dog sit/ foster" his bitch and the two babies while he was at work, I offered to lend him my kennels, I offered to come over and help build a proper enclosure so he wouldn't have to worry about the pups escaping and tearing through his house. Anything and everything I could think of to get this guy to not sell these poor doomed puppies at 4 weeks of age.I think he listened to a lot of what I had to say, and I hope and pray that I hear from him. The only good thing about all this is he said he was having his bitch spayed.

[rottrolle]

It a big world. We can't stop all the BYBs.

[Tank'sM1911A1]

At least the guy hung around on the phone for two hours...maybe you got through.

You tried...

[Birdie'sMom]

Originally posted by rottrolle
It a big world. We can't stop all the BYBs.

Maybe not, but stopping one at a time is a start!

[Burnsway]

What ever you do, do not take these dogs from him even if they are free. If There is one thing I have learned from Psyche, this is it. I thought, no biggy this guy had an accident litter, I will take one, help him out a bit. NOPE!!!!! All you do is clear the way for the next litter when you do that. This particular guy has had atleast 4 litters since. Thats in less then 3 years. Everytime everyone at his work takes one and frees him up again. He tried to get us to take one of his beagle mixed pups a while back and my response was I will take the whole litter if you let me take all your dogs in asap and have them fixed. He turned me down.....no surprise.....

The only way people like this and BYB"s learn is through education and having to pay some kind of price and inconvenience in their lives. If people buy the pups out of their hearts or help rehome them when it isn't a true accident but pure irresponsibility they will just do it again and again.....

[TrinityRun]

My experience tells me this guy was polite enough not to hang up on you but when push comes to shove, he only wants the $$. He doesn't want help.

He's learned his lesson now only because the little gems are beginning to cost him money. He won't soon repeat it until he's settled again. He will rear his BYB head again in a couple of years.

Keep good notes, Rotts..... see if I'm right. ;)

[Burnsway]

Originally posted by TrinityRun


Keep good notes, Rotts..... see if I'm right. ;)

I don't have to keep notes myself......I KNOW YOU ARE RIGHT.....

I absolutely refuse to ever help or even try to educate people like this when I know it is not a true accident. You just become a free worker to help him clear the way for the next set of pups that he wants to make a buck off.

[mmgy]

Originally posted by Birdie'sMom
Maybe not, but stopping one at a time is a start!

I agree! So far, rotts and roses isn't out anything but some phone time. And if that guy absorbed any of it, then we'll all be better off.

But if he does accept some help, I'd make it contingent on that bitch being spayed. When you go back and read the ad, it sounds as though he wanted homes for every dog except her.

[TrinityRun]

This is just another example of where you need to educate.

It's not the BYB's that need the education. As I said, they know what they are doing and why. ($)

You need to educate the public.

Rotts....wanna make a serious impact? Start running the counter ads in the paper for Learn Before You Buy information.

Educating the public is what stops the majority of BYB's.

2 hrs of phone conversations can be better spent when someone is calling for the information because they are already receptive to it.

Think about it....

[nick teifke]

I disagree, not all BYBs are bad people. Alot of them just dont know what is right and what is not. Im not saying you can get thru to all of them, but you can get thru to some of them.
It doesnt make any sense to me to automatically assume everyone is either this or that. I try to judge each person individually, and if I think I can talk to them, I do. Just because they are breeding when they shouldnt be, doesnt mean they arent going to be receptive to education.

[rotts and roses]

He did say he planned on having her spayed, weather he does remains to be seen.I have no intention of taking the puppies, even if he PAID me too! *L*He sounded like he was really just at a loss and from what I gathered, his wife was the " breeder" of these poor dogs, and she left him to deal with the dogs, They guy really did seem generally interested in what I had to say. He didn't know about bite inhibition, hip dysplasia, nutrition,or anything about raising puppies in general. These people had no business breeding, and now if nothing else I think this guy knows it.At least he listened to me ramble for 2 hours.
If I had anything to do with preventing two 4 week old puppies from being placed far too soon, That's all I could hope to ask for.
If I educated this guy in the least and made him think twice about breeding, well that is just icing on the proverbial cake
:D

[spidey]

I completely agree with Nick - not all BYBs are evil people, some just don't know any better. It's easy to say "well they SHOULD know better, and do research" from the standpoint of people who are either already educated, or who at least know they need to be, but many BYBs don't know that resources exist, and if their family/friends/whatever have been breeding and having fun with it, why would they even think twice about it?

Education is never wasted, and I think taking the attitude that all BYBs are evil money-grubbing small-scale puppy mills doesn't help anything. Some are genuinely just people who intend no harm, like puppies and just don't know any better.

[TrinityRun]

Right. Agreed.

But this is a prime time for the LBB information. ;)

[TrinityRun]

I'm only speaking from my own experience. The majority of BYB that I've seen, that I've dealt with knew exactly what they were doing.

They vet their dogs. They feed them Pedigree, (great food afterall.) They only sell their dogs to loving families. Their dogs are good dogs. They are healthy dogs. They are doing nothing wrong. They don't want to sell show dogs, they only want to sell loving pets and that's what they are going to continue doing.
There are just so many things they are doing wrong, that they cannot possibly begin to comprehend it.

This is how I came to understand that, for me to make a difference, I had to go beyond the breeder. I had to reach the BUYERS and it worked better than I could have ever imagined.

When someone stumbles onto a good money making scheme, from the Clampetts to the Jones' - they are never easily swayed into giving it up. The more $ they make, the more excuses they adopt to continue their venture.

But if the educated buyers don't buy their puppies, the breeder learns the hard way. They get out of breeding dogs because they went from making them money to costing them money and that isn't the idea.

Can some folks be turned around, of course. But I'm talking in general terms and it's my experience they aren't interested in the breed enough to do right by it. They prefer to be left alone. All one can do is extend the hand of education and hope they shake it. If they do, wonderful. If they choose not to, then you enter phase two with a clean conscience, knowing you've made the education available to anyone who seeks it, including the BYB.

[redstormraven]

I feel for the people who would buy these four week old puppies. We took Teddy at four weeks because his mother was killed. We had gotten Lexee at 9 weeks. Big difference in raising these dogs. It has been very hard teaching Teddy manners and to be a part of a family. Lexee has a hard time dealing with him especially now that he is five months and is the same size as he is. He is quite a challenge. If he could have stayed with his mother and littermates, I think he would be a better dog. He is slowly progressing and I love him to death, but raising a pup that young is something I don't ever want to have to do again.

Cathy
Mom to
Lexee, 19 months rotti
Teddy, 5 months rotti
Leena, 2 yo toy fox terrier