OVER-socialization?

[spidey]

A rather heated discussion on a mailing list I'm on prompted me to ask you guys this:

Is it possible to OVER-socialize a puppy? After a day of arguing, it seemed to me that some people may think of any dog/human or dog/dog encounter as socializing, in which case, if dogs are allowed to run amok with anyone and everyone, I can see that one might reasonably think that encounters like that can be over-done. I usually think of socialization as more controlled encounters (meeting dogs on-leash, having strangers meet the dog, pet it and feed it treats, etc), in which case, I can't see that a dog can meet too many people and dogs. What do you think?

[damp]

I don’t think a pup can be over- socialized… but I do believe a pup (dog) can me FORCED/STRESSED, if it is exposed to new environments and has to meat other dogs/people day after day. We have to respect a pup needs to sleep, to relax and to be in well-known places and only among it’s “pack-members”, especially if the pup by nature is not the most confident and self-assured.

Socialization is important, we all know that, but socialization also has to be structured.

What I am trying to say is: NO you can’t expose a pup to too many people/animals/environments etc. = socialization, but you can do it too fast and too often = forced socialzation.

[frontierrots]

My pups (Rottweilers and Shiba Inu) start coming to work with me at a busy boarding/grooming kennel when they are 5 week old unvaccinated babies.

They stay in a playpen in he lobby-out of the main path-with a sign encouraging people to pat but not pick them up. They stay all am and I take them home at noon

By the time they are vaccinated at 8 weeks and go to new homes at 10 weeks they have seen , at minimum, 200 people and quite a few vaccinated, healthy dogs

"I" think they are MUCH more outgoing and social (and used to blow dryer, vacuum, phone etc noises) then the pups I used to keep isolated at home with only certain visitors allowed.

This works well for these breeds anyway and to date (8 years later) we have had no illness contracted because of this socializing practice. BUT the people and dogs coming in are NOT likely to have been in contact with ill animals either AND this is not a Parvo hotspot

[sumojeb]

frontierrots....i think that is just great!

[mijpa]

i've posted this topic awhile back.what i was concerned with at the time was does over socializing cause a dog that may not protect.moto who just turned 2 years old on 9-10-03 has been socialized up the ying-yang.he just loves everyone people and animals.


things have changed a bit at the dog park.moto use to get humped alot when he was younger i would pull the humper off, moto would go on with nub wagging and runnung up to people and other dogs kissing everyone.he just didn't mind it now he is starting to not tolerate that any longer also my wife & i were sitting on a bench moto was about 30 yards from us and this happy boxer came up jumping on us trying to kiss us.


i look up and moto was charging this dog the boxer got wind of moto charging him and took off, to late,moto literaly ran him over and was growling.i immmediatly called him over in which he came and healed.i don't know if this was a protective thing or not. but i must admit i loved it he listned to the heal call {it just looked professional} the owner of the boxer wasn't wooried about the slight altercation.it was just dogs bieng dogs.maybe it was a dominance issue?what do you all think.

[Rocky's_mom]

I agree with damp. You should just watch for the signs of the puppy being really stressed out. The more people they meet the better. My dog doesn't get out much and last night i ordered pizza. Well, that pizza guy came to the door and Rocky just went about crazy!!!!

[Luvs]

I personally feel that a puppy can never have too much socialization. As long as the experiences are kept positive and the puppy is not stressed.

We have made a huge effort to make sure our puppies have been heavily socialized. Our puppies love EVERYONE! I have really encouraged this with them. When we go through a drive thru whether it is fast food or the bank Akasha will try to climb over me to visit with the people at the counter. I made the mistake of letting one of the cashiers at one of the drive thrus pet her and now she thinks they all want to:D

Both Akasha and Keil are very friendly and I love that about them. I don't worry about them protecting us because that is not what I got them for. They are our companions not our protectors. I take Akasha with me in the truck all the time and I feel comfortable leaving the truck running with the air on for her while I run into the store because I think that just the fact that she is a Rottweiler is enought to keep people from trying to get into my vehicle. She sure wouldn't do anything to stop anyone from taking my vehicle, but like I said that is not what I have her for.

The puppies will be a year old at the end of October and we still try to socialize them as much as possible and will continue to socialize them;)

[Carina43]

I agree with Damp too!

The three Rottweilers I have raised from pups came to work with me most of the time from 8 weeks old. Since I work construction - related stuff, they've been exposed to noisy tools, heavy equipment, tons of different people, dogs, kids...all sorts of environments. Each of those dogs has been unflappable and friendly.

Don't know about "running amok" - but sensible supervision of course - monitoring inappropriate behaviour (by puppy or other people & dogs) and making sure the pup is safe and has his own sleeping place makes sense.

[poohbearsmom]

Damp hit the nail on the head.... over socialization, NO, overstressing, YES. When you're socializing pups, much attention needs to be paid to body language and general behavior, and knowing when the pups are getting stressed. Stress is necessary for the proper development (learning how to cope with stress), but overstressing can do some real damage. There is a fine line, IMHO.

So, especially when the pups are very young, many experiences (smells, sounds, sights *once eyes are open*, sensations) are awesome.... but just for a few seconds at a time, as the nervous system is still forming.

Early Imprinting, done properly, is an amazing thing.... :D

[TrishB]

As Damp mentioned - it would depend on how you define "Socialization".

I define socialization as a controlled, monitored interaction. So yes, you can pet my dog. No, my dog cannot run amok harrassing everyone and everything in sight.

"Over Socialization" I would think would be the result of rambunctious, uncontrolled levels of play. Without any structure or feedback - the dogs would simply become uncontrollable. People or dogs = Play time and nothing else. You've never controlled it before, why would you want to start now? :p

We've all seen dogs without 'doggy manners' that run in and jump all over other dogs. No sniffing, sitting, initiating play - just running in and jumping in with all 4 paws. This would be a sign of a dog which had not been encouraged to behave properly. The same with dogs that run up to people and jump all over them.

So I wouldn't say it's the result of 'over socialization', I would say it's a result of an owner who hadn't done their homework and allowed their dog to run amok, in the NAME of socialization. ;)