a hair-raising tale

[Ocean]

This is why my stepdaughter is not allowed to be near the Rotts anymore - no matter what you tell the child, she does what she wants to!

My husband explained to her in great detail how Blaze was NOT Ocean, he was a BIG MALE DOG and much stronger than her, and that we didn't know him that well yet. She was strictly forbidden to get on the floor with him and roll and wrestle as she does with Ocean, as Blaze is not as predictable or obedient as my little girl pup.

We reinforced these rules with examples (Blaze and Ocean fighting, Blaze growling when Ocean went near his dish, etc.) and told her over and over that she must NOT approach his bowl while he was eating, or go near him while he had a bone or toy.

So the very next day, I got home from work to find my stepdaughter crying in her room and my husband fuming. He had gone into the kitchen to get coffee and found his daughter crawling around the floor with Blaze humping her, giggling at his frenzy. She had thought her dad was outside and wouldn't find out.

Now she is prohibited from being in the room with either dog. I don't think Blaze would hurt her, but an intact male in a sexual frenzy is NOT a safe plaything, and what really took the cake was how many warnings she had beforehand! We are on the 3rd day of sulking - she can't play with the dogs (even Ocean) for a week.

[Burnsway]

Sounds like, from the tone of your post, that you have other issues with your step daughter that are not even dog related. I don't think it is fair to punish or blame your step daughter that this happened. Punish her for being disobedient yes, but for what the dog did,,NO. Sounds like you are expecting more out of her then she can understand. Why not just crate or separate the dogs from her while she is over.

Tell you the truth if this had happened at my house I would have given the dog a what for. Be careful letting your anger towards your step daughter show through infront of the dogs.

Quoting JudiW in another thread that many dogs are more then ready to help you discipline.

[LavenderRott]

How old is your stepdaughter?

[Ocean]

My stepdaughter is 8. This all happened when I was not home. The anger and punishment came from my husband, not from me, I am relaying it here. Yes, I am annoyed that she (again) chose to disobey, and created a situation where we can't trust her to keep herself safe around the dogs. I don't like to have to keep them under 24 hour watch because I can't be sure she isn't sneaking behind our backs to play with them, you're right about THAT.

laze is very ready to please, but we are cautious around him because of how he cringes in terror at any sudden movement, even just someone coming into the room. When we tried to push his rump down for "sit," he cowers to the floor in fear. If we raise a hand in the "stay" signal, he is terrified. I don't knkow what the best way to proceed is; I'm thinking that we should wait until he is more confident that no one here is going to hit him before we attempt any type of correction. And he actually has done nothing yet he needs to be corrected for (except the vigorous humping episode, and I think my husband yelled at my stepdaughter for that one, not the dog).

The drill right now is that she is not permitted to come into a room alonewhere the dogs are; I don't get involved in father/daughter discipline. I dont know if my husband reprimanded Blaze, to be honest. Should he have, given his fearful nature at this point? I don't know if I would consider it doing something wrong if she was crawling around encouraging him to get on top of her; in his doggie mind, he was probably doing what he was told...

[spidey]

we can't trust her to keep herself safe around the dogs.

She's a kid, kids aren't supposed to keep themselves safe, that's what (step)parents are for :) . IMO very few kids under 10 are safe to leave alone with dogs. I don't think it's necessarily fair to say that she's the one who created this situation, she's just doing what kids do. Just as with dogs, reasonable expectations and patience are key. I know it's frustrating...but hang in there, they do grow up. :)

[Burnsway]

IMO very few kids under 10 are safe to leave alone with dogs.

Thats for sure Spidey. Mine is 11 and I'm just now beginning to feel she may have a "bit" of understanding what it is all about. And she is 2 years ahead in education.......


Ocean, I'm glad this was all caught before anything worst came of it. Keeping them all separated when unsupervised would be the best at the moment.

[rotts and roses]

Have her spayed A.S.A.P.!!!!:D :D :D ;) :p
Just kidding, I know how frustrating it is to have kids disobey what you have told them over and over and over and OVER..
You are doing the right thing by re-enforcing the fact that she is NOT to be alone with the dogs, especially Blaze. He is still learning his environment and with fear issues there can often be no warning what so ever.Hugs to you and good luck!

[FredAl]

Originally posted by Ocean
When we tried to push his rump down for "sit," he cowers to the floor in fear. If we raise a hand in the "stay" signal, he is terrified. I don't knkow what the best way to proceed is; I'm thinking that we should wait until he is more confident that no one here is going to hit him before we attempt any type of correction.

One way to get him used to a raised hand is through habituation exercises. Pet Ocean on the side of the head (the cheek area) while you give him some soothing praises. Continue the soothing praises while you raise your "petting hand" higher and higher and ending up as another comforting pet on the cheek.

Your goal is to be able to raise your hand like you're going to strike him but he will not mind it because he knows it is a prelude to a comforting pet on the cheek.

[spidey]

When we tried to push his rump down for "sit," he cowers to the floor in fear.

Why not just lure him into a sit by holding a treat just over his head? Pushing down on the rump can cause problems with getting the dog to stand for examination (whether you plan to get a CGC or not, it's useful to have a dog who'll stand for examination), and luring is more effective anyway, especially if he's frightened of being pushed. :)

[Judy Chrusch]

Reading this post made me very sad bc I feel as though there's way too much pressure put on this little girl who doesn't have a clue about any of this:( . I've always had kids grow up with rotties and have always instilled right from wrong and do's and don't's but with that we explained EVERYTHING to them and of course they were never left alone with the dog where there could be a potential problem. Perhaps your step daughter is acting out and even jealous, not a good thing if the child feels as though she's second over the dog. Kids and dogs can live in harmony but please don't punish her for not understanding why:( . Calmly sit her down and do things together, you, your stepdaughter and husband, make things fun together all the while you're explaining the power behind this breed. Make her feel important, let her feed him, give him water, clean their dishes, brush him, whatever, but make her feel as though she's contributing to having this new dog. Mark my word, things will get worse before they get better if she keeps getting punished for things she has no understanding of.

The whole intact male, humping, whatever, she has no clue. I feel as though she's acting out and will do bad things and or go against you bc that's a way she will get attention, even though it's bad attention. I could be wrong but for a child to go against everything you say is quite unusual unless there's some underlined thing going on, sorry but that's just my oppinion and I feel for the child.

You are absolutely right about them never being together without supervision but if you make her feel important and is learning with you and your husband then she won't feel so left out. Remember, this is an 8 year old little girl we're talking about.

If I've offended you in any way, it wasen't my intention and I apologize but I just feel as though things could be done alittle different to avoid punishment and make your stepdaughter feel as though she is contributing something with this new dog:).

Judy

[poohbearsmom]

I don't think Blaze would hurt her, but an intact male in a sexual frenzy is NOT a safe plaything,

I don't see this as a sexual display from Blaze, I see this more as a dominance display. And yes, being the size he is, he could hurt her. Very often, adult dogs see children as suboardinates, which is why I don't allow kids on the floor with my dogs.

At 8 years of age, your stepdaughter IS old enough to obey rules, and understand the whys of the rules. If she were 4, I'd cut her a little slack on the understanding part.

It does sound like you have more issues with this child than the dogs, but, because of the dangers of something taking a turn for the worse, this is an issue. (You're not alone, I have a 20year old stepson that doesn't listen any better than your 8 year old. He acts out as well, in many of the same ways. )

Crate the dogs when you can't supervise them with your daughter, and get to the bottom of her issues. Likely, they have very little to do with the dogs, and a whole lot to do with deeper issues.... it's just easy for her to get your goad through the dogs.

Good luck with this. Hug your daughter.

Kind regards,

[Burnsway]

Originally posted by poohbearsmom


At 8 years of age, your stepdaughter IS old enough to obey rules, and understand the whys of the rules.

Yes she is but really how does anyone know if she broke any rules in this situation. All anyone saw was her dad who walked in and saw them on the floor with male dog humping away and daughter laughing. Maybe she was just going into the kitchen to get a drink and a 100 pound plus dog follows her, gets on his hind legs starts humping, knocks her over and she starts giggling and then dad walks in. Next thing she knows she is in big trouble as dad probably gave her a what for and Blaze is watching the whole thing. Not sure that is a good message to be sending Blaze. Not saying this is what happened but the truth of the fact is that Blaze needs to learn that this is their child and no way should he be treating her in a dominant way.

This could have been a serious, serious situation that could have got out of hand in a split second. It should never ever be left up to a child to keep these things from happening. Heck I don't even trust my hubby to follow the rules...... :D

[Ocean]

Thanks everyone - I should not have said "keep herslef safe around the dogs," that gives the impression that SHE has the responsibility of doing so! Of course that is OUR responsibility, to keep our little girl safe. The reason my husban was so mad at her was because we HAVE sat down and talked about how Blaze is different from Ocean and what not to do and why. He gets frustrated because like many kids, she pretends she doesn't understand so that she can disobey with impunity... ;) She does love to brush Blaze, as he holds stock-still for this - he adores it too. Brushing Ocean is like trying to brush a whirlwind, she thinks it is so much FUN to chase the brush as it moves.


Regarding Blaze's fearfulness, I guess I am basically following what FredAl and Spidey said - I hold the treat over his head and move it back so that he has to sit to keep it in sight, and praise him to the skies when he does so. I also hold my hand over his head and waggle it in a friendly fashion while talking to him soothingly and bringing it down to pet him slowly. Hope this will have some effect soon! I think he will just have to get used to the normal traffic of our household before he stops being so nervous about someone just walking by. I believe he was kept in the basement of his previous owner's parents without any interaction for a couple months, so he has become unused to being part of a household - if he ever was before!

Being the newest (and largest) member of the family, Blaze naturally has had the lion's share of attention since he arrived a week ago. You may be right, Judy, in thinking that consciously or subconsciously, my stepdaughter feels jealous of the attention h is getting, although this didn't happen when we got Ocean. And perhaps he is the proverbial "forbidden fruit" as well! :D

[sophie's-mom]

Ocean, I agree with poohbearsmom..........your stepdaughter IS old enough to know when she is doing something AGAINST your rules. And this WASN'T a sexual thing......he was dominating her. There is no way that you have handled this situation badly. You weren't THERE!!!! I can only IMAGINE how difficult it must be to raise a child that already has the foundation of herself laid out before you got there! OY VEY!!!

Everyone COULD be right, I don't know how long your husband and you have been together, she could be acting out because of that, but that's none of my business. The point IS, your stepdaughter disobeyed and COULD have been hurt!! Stepping in the way your husband did was EXACTLY the right thing! Otherwise how does it DETER the behavior.

[Miabella]

I have to agree with PBM that the stepdaughter should be old enough to understand and follow the rules given to her. I have a stepdaughter who is going to be 11 years old in November, I have known her since she was 3. She is excellent about following rules set up for her safety, and we've never had a problem with her respecting that even when she was much younger.

However, I don't know the specifics of your situation, but I do know that blending families can be very difficult and wrenching for parents and children alike. It sounds like you need to be there to supervise at all times, otherwise the dogs will have to be put up. I actually don't like the idea of kids wrestling on the floor with ANY dog, but I'm not a full-time mom, so maybe I'm just a worrywort.