new boy is home! (LONG)

[Ocean]

Blaze's "daddy" dropped him off last night - typical, a kid who wanted a tough looking dog to foster his image and didn't know anything about the breed or what they need. The poor boy has been shuttled around from place to place over the last month, he's so confused and worried - my heart just bleeds for him. It's going to take a few weeks at least before he realizes that nothing is going to change from now on, we are not going anywhere.

I put Ocean in her crate when he arrived; she barked frantically and her hackles were up, but her tail was waggling the whole time - no teeth showing, just ALERT! ALERT! THERE IS A DOG IN MY HOUSE! Blaze was SO mellow, just happy-curious, they sniffed noses and butts through the crate and I let him explore the kitchen (lifted his leg on the wall and the frig ) and the backyard for awhile, coming back in every few minutes to visit with Ocean again.

After his "daddy" left (he left without saying goodbye while Blaze was in the yard), I let Ocean out of the crate and put him in for about half an hour. Then I put her on her leash and introduced them in the yard (he was not on leash, no need - he is one mellow fellow!). She was SUCH a pest, insisted on jumping on his back over and over - that's why I kept her on the leash, I knew she would do that. So we walked around the yard for about 45 minutes, I kept her from tackling him as much as I could. Then I let her off the leash and just watched them. Ocean was SO excited - she has never had another dog to play with. Blaze was so polite and "smiley" about it, he just stood there looking tolerant when she climbed all over him. What a gentleman!

They spent a quiet (mostly) night in their crates side-by-side, after some treats and petting. Blaze cried and whined a bit but I ignored him and he quieted down and went to sleep. They were SO excited when my husband got home from work this morning at 6:00! I was worried that Blaze would growl at a "stranger" but he was just delighted to see him. Both dogs tackled him for hugs and treats and then went outside to play.

I fed them together and watched carefully - it was funny, they kept switching bowls as if they were worried that the other one had something better! Once Ocean stuck her nose into the bowl Blaze was eating from, and he gave her a little conversational growl, like "EXCUSE ME!" but no snap or teeth showing. All the same, I put one bowl inside and one outside for now.

He is very muscular but MUCH too thin (he has been eating Gravy Train - UGH) and he STINKS. His coat is filthy, his teeth are dirty, his breath is atrocious, he needs to be neutered, his right eye droops and he is just the sweetest thing. :D He came with a ridiculous 3" wide black webbed collar with SPIKES on it (half missing), a bag of Gravy Train, a dirty blue webbed collar, and an unused doggie toothbrush and toothpaste set. All but the last went in the garbage, and he has a nice new red leash and collar. He is great on the leash, walks at a permanent heel.

I had forgotten what it was like to have a male dog - he is marking EvERYTHING, and his pee smells (Ocean's doesn't). Will this stop once he has gotten familiar with the yard? And will it stop somewhat once he is neutered? And why the smell???

I welcome all comments on how I handled this (alone, yet! I wish my husband had been there to give me a hand but he was at work), and suggestions to make things easier in the days to come. All in all, it went very well, I thought...

[Mavides]

Congratulations!!!! It sounds like things went WONDERFULLY!!! The males that I have brought in to foster as rescues ALWAYS marked the backyard...even after being neutered, but I was able to really begin to control it in the house after the surgeries. Good luck with it!!! As for the smell, I'm not sure, but do you think it could have anything to do with his previous diet? I'd be curious to see if it improves as you have him for a while. Keep us posted and let us know when you get some photos up!!! :)

[samanthac]

Congrats and you had better post pics soon...its mandatory! I am so proud of how much you've grown and learned since you brought Ocean home!!!

she barked frantically and her hackles were up, but her tail was waggling the whole time

Just be careful. One thing to remember is that a wagging tail is not always a sign it is ok. I have seen and heard of many cases where a dog approached a person or other animal with tail wagging and then WHAM. So just be careful. Hackles up, ears up, intent stares, tail standing stiff and straight up, stiff body posture are all signs to watch for.

She was SUCH a pest, insisted on jumping on his back over and over

Sounds like she is trying to say "Hey I am the TOP DOG here." Usually this is considered a dominance move. She may be trying to establish to him early on that this is HER house and that SHE is the boss. Since it is a new environment he may put up with it for a while. But don't be surprised one day if he decides he has had enough of that and tries to put a stop to it. I mean it may simply just be play and excitement right now, but either way, if it were me I would monitor it and be sure I taught her how to treat him with some manners.

Blaze was so polite and "smiley" about it, he just stood there looking tolerant when she climbed all over him. What a gentleman!

Sounds like a sweet boy, but remember he is just adjusting right now and may be more tolerant. Again, as I said above I would just keep an eye on it because one day once he is settled in he may decide he's had enough and its time to teach Ocean some manners. Frankly, I'd rather be the one to do that! :)

I was worried that Blaze would growl at a "stranger" but he was just delighted to see him.

This may chancge in time. When I first brought Athena home for months she had no sense of territorialty. Never barked when people came to the door, when trucks drove by, etc. But once she got her 'sealegs' under her, she became more territorial. Now she barks to warn us of people on the sidewalk, trucks driving by, the trashmen, the snow plow, other dogs outside. That will come with time.

I fed them together and watched carefully - it was funny, they kept switching bowls as if they were worried that the other one had something better! Once Ocean stuck her nose into the bowl Blaze was eating from, and he gave her a little conversational growl, like "EXCUSE ME!" but no snap or teeth showing. All the same, I put one bowl inside and one outside for now.

That is probably a good idea until he adjusts. What may be a friendly warning growl one day may become a This is MY food bite on another. You need to teach them manners when eating. My two eat together in the same room, but in seperate areas and I monitor until done. If I see one even thinking of bothering the other I will either remove them for a quick potty trip outside or a quick OB session in another room. Soon I will have a third so the dynamic will change and I may need to feed in shifts.

had forgotten what it was like to have a male dog - he is marking EvERYTHING, and his pee smells (Ocean's doesn't). Will this stop once he has gotten familiar with the yard? And will it stop somewhat once he is neutered? And why the smell???

Although its natural that he wants to 'mark' his territory, you can curb this with a lot of work, patience and persistence. As far as marking in the house you need to teach him that marking in the house is NOT ok. You may have to leash him to you for the first few weeks during free time. Babygate off sections of the house to restrict his movement until you have this under control. He should never be unsupervised at this point.

Next get a soda can. Fill it with rocks or pennies. Since you will be supervising, everytime he even looks like he is going to lift that leg throw the can next to him and yell NO very loudly at the same time. He will soon associate lifting his leg in the house with the bad noise and displeasure from you.

As far as training him what he can and can't pee on outside, plant a post out in the yard. When you first go out take him right to it, let him lift his leg on it and praise the living crap out of him as he is peeing on the post. Be sure you have your can as well. As he wanders he is going to want to mark. Everytime he lifts his leg on anything in the yard but that post, throw that can next to him and again with the loud NO at the same time. You can also do the same thing during walks. We are currently training Disel that it is not cool to pee on people's mailboxes, trees and shrubs.

You will need to be very patient and persistent. But I know people who have sucessfully trained their dogs to only pee on the post in the yard.

Well, pee smells. Its strong because in nature that is a dogs calling card and it needs to last to let others know, HEY this is MY territory. But I think that also, once you get him onto a better food and into a better routine, that this may help. Also water helps to dilute this, but by the same token that means more trips outside. Also remember, the longer they keep it inside the stinkier it will be. Ever notice how much stronger your own urine smells in the morning after holding it for 6 or 8 hours?

You sound like your are doing fine. Just take time with the intros and supervise. Always be aware and you will stave off any issues.

Congrats and he sounds like a nice boy. Now we just need pictures! :)

[RottnByrd]

Congrats on your new buddy!! You are so wonderful to take Blaze into your home (I like his name, now you have Fire and Ocean, you just nead earth and wind :D).

Looks like you need to change your signature and add another puppy dog down there!

I dont think you could have asked for a better experience introducing the two and I think it was smart of you to get a male. I have actually never had a male dog before but I know that if I ever do own my own house (and know what I want to do with my life and get semi settled) I want to get a male. By then Koty will probably be 10 years old though so we'll see!

I bet the smell will go away with a change of diet though, I know Koty smelled horribly when I first got her but by changing her diet it completely went away.

Again, congratulations and good luck!

[Ocean]

Thanks so much for the congrats - and the good advice, Samanthac; I can always count on your for that!

Rottenbyrd it's so funny you said that: it'd been my dream for awhile to have 4 Rotties, named after the elements. Ocen was the first - she gave me the idea, her name came to me before I thought of the other ones, though. When Blaze was offered to me, I figured it was destiny! My husband wants to change his name because one of the cats is named Blade and it will be confusing, but I'm trying to talk him out of it. Little does he know... :D

I think Blaze got a little tired on the jumping last night, he did at one point turn to Ocean and give her a growly noise, like "All RIGHT already!" Here is a body language question; while she jumps on him, he stands at attention, quite stiff, ears WAY up (not back, just up) tail high and wagging, eyes rolling to watch her apprehensively. What does that signify to you?

She is callming down about him, she was better this morning.

I can't WAIT to give this boy a bath! Watta smell!

[TrinityRun]

Congratulations on your new addition. Sounds like the first day went okay for you.

There were several points in your post that got me thinking maybe it would be a good idea to have a sticky thread on how to properly introduce a new dog. I know this is something that happens a lot, be it rescues, fosters or new pups. I also know it's a transition many people tend to push too fast because they are anxious to have the dog fit in and feel loved.

[samanthac]

I have a really good article on introducing the new dog to the resident dog written by a friend of mine who has been training more years than most of us have been alive. Its very well written and this person has a very keen understanding of canine behavior and how they really use their senses as opposed to how we think they use their senses. It is all based on scent, which is a dog's primary sense.

Introducing a New Dog to Your Resident Dog
Training Tips... by Ken Piening

For the sake of this article your new dog coming into the home will be referred to as the "New Dog". The resident dog will be referred to as the "Old Dog."

The introduction of unfamiliar dogs to other dogs may be a perilous journey. This can be very stressful for the dogs and the owners. To help alleviate this stress, we must understand why the introduction is difficult for our dogs...

When the new dog enters the home, territorial instincts tell the old dog that he is to defend his home. These territorial feelings are the reason why dogs can not meet "the wrong way." To understand the proper introduction, we must know that dogs live in a world of scent. Dogs rely on their keen sense of smell to introduce themselves to their surroundings. Therefore, training is based on their highly developed sense of smell. This is a difficult concept to grasp because humans depend on sight more than smell. With this in mind, the home must be set up in a way that separates the two dogs so there is no visual contact. Visual contact creates posturing (a cold stare, growling and hackles raised). Dominant or submissive posturing immediately triggers a reaction in a the other dog and often leads to stress and tension between the two.

Introducing two dogs to each other...

Our FIRST STEP is to have two cages in separate areas of the home (or one cage and a laundry room); this is vital in allowing for a stress free meeting. The reason we allow both of the dogs to have their own cage is for the feeling of comfort and security. We use the cage as a training tool; the dog however uses it for security. It is very important that the dogs do not make visual contact during this sensitive FIRST STEP. We cannot let them see one another, but we will let them smell each other. This will be done by simply placing a toy, tug, or even a blanket in their cages. These toys are called "scent articles". The switching of these scent articles alone will allow a deeper relationship between the dogs. We are completely communicating to the dogs by the way they understand... through their nose!

The SECOND STEP we will be to let our new dog roam around the house. He will be getting accustomed to his new home and his new owners. Your older dog should be out of harms way (under your control and out of sight) when the new dog is out of his cage. The newcomer will be exploring your home while leaving his scent on a territory that is not initially his. The new dog should only be out of his cage for fifteen to twenty minutes, several times a day. This is plenty of time for him to check out his new environment and leave his own scent about the house. ( As you will see, later on after the introduction period is over and the dogs are comfortable with each other's scent, they no longer have to be separated. The new dog might need his own cage for other behavioral training not associated with the introduction period, for example, housebreaking a younger dog.) When the new dog goes back in his cage place the old dog's scent articles with him.

When playtime is over for the new dog, The THIRD STEP is to switch the dogs. This means that the new dog goes to a confined area and the old dog is allowed to play. The old dog comes out of the hidden crate and the new dog goes into his own cage (or room). The first time the old dog goes exploring he will vigorously explore the scent left around the home by the new dog until he is satisfied the intruder has "escaped". Your older dog might be overwhelmed and confused and now needs your comfort. Allowing him to sit on your lap or by your side through a good book or a rerun of Lassie will serve as the quality time he needs during this scent discovery period. For the old dog to understand the new smell, he should be let out of the cage as many times a day as possible. The old dog should only be let out after the new dog has played, and has been put away. With these short routines, both dogs are familiarizing each other at a faster rate. Actually, the concept is quite simple. The more times you let your new then old dog out, the quicker they will be acquainted. Your older dog will display his permission as to when the two should meet. When he comes out of the cage and does not follow the scent of the new dog, your older dog has given his permission. NOW THE NEW DOGS CAN MEET FACE TO FACE, since they are familiar and comfortable with one another's scent. Read on...

The FOURTH STEP is to introduce the dogs face to face. For territorial reasons, when introducing the dogs it should not be on your property. A neighbors fenced in yard, a fenced in ball field (when no other dogs or people might interfere), or any other fenced in area will be an appropriate meeting ground. Leashes may not take the place of a fenced in area; holding the leashes may potentially bring out aggression. If possible, let the old dog run around the field, while the new dog is out of sight. The old dog is laying the now familiar scent. Now it is time for the new dog to play in the field. The old dog is out of sight and the new dog also smells the familiar old dog's scent. They will both detect the familiar scent just like in the home. Since the dogs have already been formally introduced via each other's scent, they are ready to meet face to face. The area is safe because they are confined and can not run away. The dogs will run over to greet each other, smell, posture... and they will not have any inclination to fight.

This outlined routine has demonstrated a stress free and safe way to introduce new dogs. A dog's sense of smell is considered by many as its primary sense. Therefore, this training is based entirely upon the scent. This method will easily work with trained or misbehaved dogs. We are working hand in hand with the dog's natural instincts. Allowing the dog's instincts to teach the lesson will make learning simple yet efficient.

He also has a very good video tape on helping Your new Rescue adjust to your home and how to train a new rescue.

Hope this helps and feel free to sticky.

[TrinityRun]

That is a very good article. What it doesn't mention (at least in that snippet) is this takes time. Weeks, often months - not days or even hours.

The urgency too many people have to push dogs together often backfires for obvious reasons and it's usually avoidable. Just coming to a new home is stress enough on a dog let alone there be one or more dogs in residence.

Folks would do well to remember there shouldn't be any rush. Let the dogs set the pace, not you.

[Ocean]

Well, I certainly didn't introduce them by smell, that's for sure! The only thing I did that was similar to Ken's article was to let them out one at a time for a while. The only smelling they did was each other's butts - and biscuits. They were in total harmony of the sharing of pizza crusts - two happy dogs.

I guess it really did go remarkably well, all considered. I really did not know what I was doing, I see - I just let them set the pace and they seemed ready, so...

I'm sure my husband would have called me if there was a problem (I am at work), and he makes mountains out of molehills. He is learning (husband, not dog) that his days of having a dog for the sake of security and keeping it out of sight the rest of the time are OVER. To me, dogs are as much as part of the family as the rest of us and poor hubby is just realizing that there will NEVER be an "outside dog" in our house. :D

Now I must run out and get a choke collar for Blaze, as Ocean's spare one doesn't begin to fit over his huge head. She seems so petite suddenly! My little girl. ;)

[samanthac]

Originally posted by Ocean
I guess it really did go remarkably well, all considered. I really did not know what I was doing, I see - I just let them set the pace and they seemed ready, so...

Just remember that this can change at the drop of a hat. I would use extreme caution here. Just because things seem ok to you does not mean that they are.

The general rule of thumb is that it takes three months for a new dog to assimilate fully to its environment. Just because it looks to you like all is well does not necessarily mean its the case. We are talking all new sights, sounds, smells...nothing familiar to this poor boy. So there is stress there even if you are not seeing it. Plus, on top of it you have added issues of the new dog not only trying to adjust to new environment, but to a new dog (Ocean). Then to top it all off, you have Ocean trying to adjust to a new dog. less attention and an invader to her environment.

So as you can see you have very many factors that can lead to a very explosive situation if not handled very carefully. Most people just come home, throw the dogs together and voile! Then when there is a major blowout or other issues two or three months down the line, they stand there all forlorn saying "But I don't know what happened. They used to get a long just fine." The fact is that you really don't know how everyone is getting along until the assimilation period is over.

Athena and Disel were not even introduced for the three days. Then Disel would be crated when Athena was out and vise versa. This went on for about three weeks. Then they were allowed out together for short SUPERVISED periods for about another month during which we slowly increased the exposure times. They were never left alone together for any period of time up until about a month ago and still now its only for short periods of time say if we step out for the mail, hubby mows the lawn, etc. If we go out for any length of time they are both crated. Disel is 7 months now so you see the process can take some time. Some may say I am cautious, but I don't think you can't afford to not be. Its takes a split second for a fight to occur.

So all I am saying here is to exercise caution. Don't do what so many other people do and just assume everything may be ok. Yes, everything may be, but with a bit of caution you can avoid trouble if its not.

We are getting ready to add a third very soon which will change the dynamic completely so we will definitely have to make some adjustments as now I will have two resident dogs and a new dopg to deal with as well as having two males. Plus, two is one thing, but three is now a pack and the dynamic is very, very different and I will have to be careful to handle things a bit differently. When you have two its one on one if a fight breaks out. But when you have three now you have a pack and it will be two on one. So as you can see I am already thinking this through very seriously.

[Ocean]

Just posted their picture in Picture This...

[sumojeb]

after reading your story I had a warm and fuzzy feeling inside :D pics pics pics!!!!!!!

[sumojeb]

nice pic!

[Jbartu]

Sorry, I am new to these boards, I can't seem to find the "Picture this..." section. Where exactly is it?


(really hoping this wasn't a dumb question)

Joe

[sumojeb]

once you become a full member then you can have access to the "picture this" forum