National muzzle law, advice appreciated

[cucciolone]

There has been a long series of violent Pit Bull attacks in Italy throughout this summer, and it's been announced that the resulting ordinance they had been discussing in Parliament will be put into effect as of today: there are 100 breeds on the "Potentially Dangerous Dog" list that will now be required to wear a muzzle at all times, in any public place on national territory. The list includes not only the traditionally maligned Pitts, Rotts, Dobermans, etc., but also Boxers, Newfoundlands, St. Bernards, Collies, and even the sainted GSD.

Having been charged by two different large snarling animals in the past two weeks- once by what appeared to be a Golden Retriever X, and again by a GSD (in both cases, the animals were being "walked" by frail elderly handlers utterly incapable of restraining their untrained dogs)- I am relieved at least to see that the list is not comprised of Pitts and Rotts alone. But it's a meager consolation. I have spent a great deal of money, time and energy over the past two years in a marathon effort to find a trainer competent enough to help me get my strong-willed dog trained, mannered and manageable. We have worked a lot harder than most. My dog is 100% traffic-safe, is under my control at all times, and I am very conscious of my responsibilites and respectful of the personal space of strangers. I find it humiliating to be forced to bind his mouth shut, I feel that it's akin to being branded with a scarlet letter "D". With all of the media coverage, passersby have already begun gasping and drawing back when they see us coming; I think that a muzzle will only heighten their fears and confirm their worst suspicions. It certainly makes me feel conspicuous.

Possibly worse yet, they are outlawing any type of training that may "exacerbate aggression"- it remains to be seen whether they will deem SchH. training a threat to public safety.

At any rate .... I have a basket muzzle and a nylon muzzle, neither of which my dog enjoys wearing. Muzzle type is not specified in the ordinance. Does anyone have any suggestions?

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I just got back from our first walk. I know that the nylon muzzle doesn't allow room for panting, but that is what I used for the 300 mt. walk to the park. Once inside the park, I took it off. I replaced it again at the exit, was stared at by every person in every car that passed us as we waited to cross the street, felt sick and humiliated, removed it, and returned home holding it in my hand. There is not a single dog in sight anywhere in the streets.
I can't take him for long walks using the nylon muzzle, and I'm not sure how to accustom either of us to the basket. I'm considering rearranging my schedule in order to take walks in the middle of the night without one (risking a $200.00 fine).

I'm also considering making a home-made muzzle with sharpened spikes on the outside, out of spite.

[cucciolone]

I'm looking at the ???????? open face training muzzle- http://www.????????.com/708.htm#frabo -does anyone have any experience with this or something like it?

I'm trying to find a way around the indignity of a basket covering his entire face.

[LavenderRott]

I have no advice although I do know that Carina has a couple of basket muzzles.

I can not believe that Newfoundlands and Saints are on the list, what are they basing this on, size?

[cucciolone]

The ordinance will apply to all breeds in the 1st and 2nd groups of the FCI's classification: sheepdogs, cattle dogs, and molosser breeds.

It's not based on size. The Welsh Corgi is included in the list.

I just looked up the website of the Department of Health, and no specific mention of SchH. is made, but next to the article proclaiming the prohibition of "aggression-inducing training", there is a picture of a GSD biting a helper with a sleeve.

[MARYDVM]

Don't know how strict your local police are, but I once saw a picture of a dog "wearing" a muzzle as required by the city law. The muzzle was hanging from the dog's collar, not over the face at all. Your dog could "wear" the nylon muzzle this way, and you could put it on if someone in authority stopped you. Unless you think you might get an expensive ticket, or risk your dog being impounded.

[BostonRott]

I'd use the basket muzzle, or some other type where the dog can actively pant, and even drink water.

[Carina43]

That's too bad. I know there's some towns or counties in the UK with muzzle requirements for certain dogs.

Anyhow, I do have a couple of the chrome basket type muzzles - must admit I really don't use them regularly (except on Dutch to do his nails.) But I have taken each dog out back for a good walk, just to see how they'd do - Cooper paid utterly no attention to it. Dutch doesn't seem to mind it too much (although his association with it isn't entirely positive!)

Both dogs can pant quite easily with this on, and it's very adjustable to fit their heads.

[Beckysmom]

I don't have any knowledge of the muzzle that you ask about, but in the picture it looked to me like it would have same problems as a nylon groomers muzzle but cost more.

I think a basket muzzle is better for breathing, obviously, and the leather ones are not only expensive, but very heavy for all the time use if they aren't actually needed. The chrome one looked better for breathing, but, Carina, what is the padding like on top of nose? The plastic one looked less good for breathing, but looked light weight.

maybe people with dogs will start to figure out pretty soon whether the idea MaryDVM had would work. In any case if everyone complies with new law pretty soon muzzles will not be so strange looking.

The last time I was at class there was a dachsund in a muzzle. None of the pitts or rotts were.

I will be interested in knowing if you find anything the dog will be okay with for everyday use.

[LJSmith]

Just keep denying that your dog is a rottweiler, faking stupidity may be your only defense to a stupid law. If you get fined PM me. I'll pay it.

[Mary Bouchard]

We have muzzled our 2 older dogs.

Only because our rescue dog was very unpredictable and would react to some people and and animals, we didn't think it was fair to only muzzle her so we muzzled the male in the park too.

They love to see muzzles as they are going to the park and I get alot more people interacting with them muzzled.

And when others ask do they bite, I usually reply:

any animal can bite.


I once went on the airforce base with my unmuzzled male in my car: opened my window to hand out my pass and the girl in full uniform and big gun yells oh a rottie how cute can I pet him and leaned in the car and bear hugged him it is the only time my heart went oh my God!

[Carina43]

Becky - the bridge on that muzzle that goes over the snout is leather. Those muzzles are actually very lightweight. I really don't see how they would be uncomfortable. I know greyhounds and various coursing dogs wear muzzles much of the time. Maybe someone who works with coursing dogs would have input as to the best type.

cucciolone - how exactly do they define a "muzzle" and do they actually have specifications as to how (or where) it is worn? There might be room to get creative, as another couple of people have mentioned. ;)

[LavenderRott]

My mom is given the plastic type of muzzle with each foster Greyhounds she recieves.

[cucciolone]

Hallelujah! I feel so much better today! It did finally occur to me last night through my fog of devastation that I can simply hook the muzzle around his neck and allow it to flop under his chin, without actually placing it around his mouth. If I'm approached by the police... "WHOOOOPS! How on earth did that slide off?!" I'll start cultivating a wide-eyed "Who, me?" look. :p

We took a trial walk like this last night, and it was fantastic. I thought the big plastic basket floating around Diesel's neck might have annoyed him, but he could have cared less about the extra hardware. He was just as jaunty as ever, and I was absolutely elated!

Hopefully this will suffice. If I AM stopped and the police aren't amused by my routine, I'll ask them to show me where in the ordinance it is specified that the muzzle must be hooked around the mouth. ALL I can find in all the articles of the ordinance are the words: "obligatory use of leash and muzzle." Well, I am using it, sweetcakes. :D

We should squeak by this way. This is Italy, after all-- the land of doctors and patients alike, gathered together puffing away under every "Smoking Prohibited" sign on every floor of every hospital. :)

Thanks so much for your suggestions and support! Whoo-hoo!

[BostonRott]

You could use the hanging muzzle as a treat holder! :p

[cucciolone]

Great idea, Gretchen!

We passed three separate slow-moving police cars last night on our walk, and none of them stopped us. I didn't peer in to see if they were watching us, though- I'm trying to act as smooth and nonchalant as possible. But they were Carabinieri cars, and those guys are generally a bit more cool about things. The real test will be in passing members of the trifling Vigili Urbani, the traffic police. (Less power, more tyrannical.)

Anyway, so far, so good. We should be all right. And if we rack up a few fines-- my husband will pay. ;)