Temperament testing-when

[LORHEL]

I would like to know when is an appropriate age for a pup or dog to be temperament tested. Is this something done by DNA ? Is there a certain age that it can be done? I didn't know if it was something that could be determined at birth, or if the pup needed to reach a certain age before it could be done. Thank you. :)

[LORHEL]

Thanks so much! This will help me out big time, when I begin my search for a new puppy, the right way this time. :) Lori

[Michele Baxter]

Lori,
Yes, there is temperament testing that is done on puppies when they are 7 weeks old--ideally. There is a very good video by Bob and Pat Hastings called "The Puppy Puzzle" that breaks down the evaluation of puppies into structure, temperament, etc.
Myself and another friend of mine are evaluating and temperament testing a litter of rottie puppies tomorrow night. There are several phases to the test and their reactions are recorded and evaluated. We have done this with several litters and it's amazing to see how these results compare with how the dog develops.
Lastly, there is a test put on by the American Temperament Test Society. Check out their website: www.atts.org
They give breed statistics, a description of the test, upcoming tests, etc. Our area Rottweiler Club sponsors these tests each year. When you see TT after a dog's name--that usually means they have passed the ATTS test. I believe the dog must be at least 18 months for this test.
Hope this answers your question.

[LORHEL]

Thanks so much Michelle, for that info, I really want to investigate this thoroughly, this time, before we find a pup. You have been very helpful. :)

[WorkinDogz]

Lori,

Pups are tested at various stages before ever leaving the home of a GOOD breeder.

That's why it's SO VERY IMPORTANT for one of the first questions asked to you by a breeder is "What do you hope to do with this dog? Working? Pet?"

Mis-matches are a great way to make both dog and owner MISERABLE and why MANY breeders refuse to place a working prospect puppy in a pet home.

Within every litter there a pups with different levels of drives; from HIGH to "good pet". A GOOD BREEDER knows which pups should be placed in working homes and which ones would be content taking obedience courses and going for walks in the evening.

If a breeder doesn't ask you what you're purchasing a dog for; then keep on looking. Chances are that breeder is "producing puppies" and meeting a demand vs. breeding for a PURPOSE. To produce and improve the ROTTWEILER breed.

[LORHEL]

Workindogz: When you mention drive, do you mean prey-drive, or drive in general? Thanks. :)

[WorkinDogz]

All of the pups should have "drive"...the intensity of the drive; how fast they kick into it (and how long they STAY IN IT) is measured...as well as retrieving, confidence, curiousity, sensitivity to noises, situations etc. is what separates the working prospects from the pets.

A fearful puppy; a lazy one; one who shows little interest in exploring etc doesn't make a good working dog. (Generally speaking; a good breeder won't even SELL a fearful pup; but instead will keep him...work with him; condition him and then either place him at an older age with a spay/neuter contract or in severe cases; euthanize him.)

Again..ALL PUPS have drives (including prey-drive) just in different levels...and quite sadly; sometimes so LOW you have to really look for subtle signs that they even exist :( Damn Black and Tan Coonhounds :( :(

[alexav]

Wow, EXCELLENT thread! Topic near and dear to my heart. Warning...this could get a little long....sorry!

I studied the theories of "puppy aptitude testing" when it was unheard of and the mere mention would cause people to think you needed your head examined!

While in College, I volunteered my time to "test" litters for breeders in the area. I then collected data from the rest of each of the puppies lives. Wow, the results were mindblowing!

Of course, it took a while to learn the interpretation, execution, etc, and no, my first few attempts were NOT very accurate to say the least. But the recommendations were still better than nothing. How many people are allowed to go to the whelping box and "pick the cutest one", or "the runt is ALWAYS the best", or my personal favorite when it comes to Rotties..."The BIGGEST male with the BIGGEST head!"

Guide dogs for the blind and other Service dog organizations have found these tests to save them thousands of dollars and countless hours of training on dogs that have no hope of being successful simply because they just weren't born with what it took to do the work. No, not all the pups that test brilliantly make it either but it sure stacks the odds in the trainer's favor.

Many of you know that my wonderful little bitch, Breezy, tested like a pipe bomb with a lit fuse. LOL? Seriously! She was the "runt" and by far the cutest pup to the untrained eye. (O.K., to my eyes too! :o )
I often think what may have become of her if she hadn't come home with me. :( Had she not been trained like the serious working dog that she is, (HIGH prey drive, HIGH defense, High fight, and nerves and energy to BURN) She would either be dead or on a VERY thick logging chain. Anything else and the general public would be at risk! :p

Mismatches can be deadly! (For the dog mostly!) How many more forever homes could there be if only people would do two things.
1) Research the breed you THINK you want. Do NOT decide on a breed because you "like the way they look".
2)Buy from a reputable, knowledgable breeder that has thier breeding stock cleared and thier puppies tested by at least one reliable tester/evaluator.

The thing that never ceases to amaze me are the differences in breeds. I had the pleasure to test a superior litter of GSD pups, then a very nicely bred Rottie litter, and a litter of Giant Schnauzers. All "working" breeds and VERY fun to test. The next litter I evaluated was a very pretty, very well bred litter of Rhodesian Ridgebacks. Sighthounds...can I just say without offending anyone....BOOOORRRRRIIIIINNGGG! Yawn! KITTENS would have been more fun to evaluate and might have exhibited more working ability. LOL! These little beauties had the personalities of dial tones! They were very healthy, had been well socialized and were given plenty of environmental stimulation, (very good breeder) but with the exeption of a little prey drive,(typical) they were the least interactive pups I have ever tested. RR's are supposed to be independant so all the pups tested were actually within normal range but jeepers! How many people who really want an obedient, "velcro dog" end up with a RR and aren't happy.

Please, no hate mail! I am merely trying to illistrate the HUGE difference between breeds. I am biased toward a good working personality but then again...I have 2 CHOWS too!!! :o :D

[Burnsway]

Originally posted by WorkinDogz:
<STRONG>Damn Black and Tan Coonhounds :( :(</STRONG>

Humor me please, I understand that wanting a Rottweiler to be this would be, totaly wrong for they are two different dogs and quit different breeds but what is so wrong with them you would frown upon their breed...

I do understand that if someone tries to make a Rottweiler a Black and Tan Coonhound dog is wrong wrong wrong!!!! Is that what you meant?

[ August 08, 2001: Message edited by: Burnsway ]

[Burnsway]

Originally posted by alexaV:
<STRONG>Please, no hate mail! I am merely trying to illistrate the HUGE difference between breeds. I am biased toward a good working personality but then again...I have 2 CHOWS too!!! :o :D</STRONG>

What chows can't work.... :D :D :D

[WorkinDogz]

Burnsway you know EXACTLY what I meant but I will HUMOR you.

When someone goes to buy/adopt a Rottweiler; they should know what a ROTTWEILER TEMPERAMENT according to the BREED STANDARD is. If they don't and are expecting to own a Rottweiler with a BLACK AND TAN COONHOUND temperament because "the neighbors down the street have a reaaaaaaaally cuddly teddy bear of a Rottie" or expect the ROTTWEILER to have the LAB temperament.....then they should OPT TO PURCHASE/ADOPT one of thooooose breeds.

Far TOO MANY people reproducing don't CARE about the standard of the breed in conformation OR Temperament and therefore you see many ROTTWEILERS carrying a LESSER temperament than is called for BY the Breed Standard.....

Amazing how things go back to BREED STANDARD isn't it Burnsway. Maybe people should actually familiarize themselves with THAT before they even start looking for a breeder.... what a concept...I think I'm on to something there.. :p

[Burnsway]

Ok we are on the same page then!

I just happen to really like the hunting ability the Black and Tan Coonhound has and their big lazy "HU?" attitude.....lol

But to want a Rottweiler to be this.....

Think not!!!!

[PuppyLove]

Big Lazy Attitude?

I have a bluetick/treeing walker coonhound and he is anything but laid back. Maybe mine is out of breed standard?
:D

[Burnsway]

Originally posted by PuppyLove:
<STRONG>Big Lazy Attitude?

I have a bluetick/treeing walker coonhound and he is anything but laid back. Maybe mine is out of breed standard?
:D</STRONG>

Well that depends, Are we talking about while you are hunting or in the house lounging around. Any hound can go from big lazy lay around attitude to I'm gonna hunt it down and get it attitude in about 2 seconds...roflmao!

But we are talking Rottweilers... :D

PuppyLove I just sent you a PM!

[ August 08, 2001: Message edited by: Burnsway ]

[SarasMom]

LORHEL,
Since we're talking about temperament, here is the FCI standard for the correct temperament and demeanor of the Rottweiler. The breeder you choose should be shooting for this. Accept nothing else. ;) Yes, the proper Rottweiler is friendly, affectionate and loves children.

He is descended from friendly and peaceful stock and by nature loves children, is affectionate, obedient and trainable and enjoys working. His rough appearance belies his ancestry. His demeanor is self-reliant, with strong nerves and fearless character. He is keenly alert to, and aware of, his surroundings.