parent, guardian, boss: all or one to your dog?

[SABELLESMOM]

Yes, I agree Beckysmom was eloquent and able to put things well. By no means in my saying I was an alpha bitch to my dog, did I imply a drill sargent or advocate of NILF, either. Neither do I consider the relationship between me and my dog a pseudo pack arrangement.

The alpha statement simply means, to me, that when a dog tests limits, I have the final say. (rough housing too rough? I say stop, and they stop) I've never punished nor diciplined my dogs in any way other than a displeased look or word out of my mouth. There is no magic or "dog whispering" going on here.

[Beckysmom]

Sabellesmom: I think the word "alpha", like many words, means different things to different people.

Similar as to fact that while both of us have "mom" in our userid, I don't think either of us is actually confused into thinking that there is a real parent child relationship with our dog. (For me, I had just been told that my dog had osteosarcoma and found this site in looking for information about that on the web. My userid was not big on my list of concerns at that time--the first thing I tried to use (Hawk or Falcon or some such) was already taken by someone--then I saw that people were using ___'mom a lot so I tried that and it was available. Done deal. Nor were things like whether the word "alpha" was used and what its implications might be, of particular concern to me then.)

Now, with an adolescent rescue on my hands, such matters as the relationship between handler and dog are much more high on my "radar." Whatever you mean, and however you personally use the term, I believe that it does derive from studies done by animal ethologists and thence applied to dog behaviour and training matters.

I believe that Samanthac's description of use of term is more generally what is understood than the way you are meaning it:

"I am the alpha bitch plain and simple.

I try to structure my household like a pack structure. Me and DH first, anyone who comes into our home next, and then dogs. As long as there is no aggression, I let them work the pack order between themselves out. My dogs are well loved and well cared for and valuable members of my household, but I do not treat them like humans in fur suits. Like in nature if my dogs respond to commands, cues and pack rules accordingly then they are rewarded accordingly. If they disobey or step out of line, they are disciplined accordingly."

Whether or not one agrees that it is the best way, I think that nails on the head what "alpha" is all about. "Alpha" has been the term given to the "top dog" in wolf packs by canid ethologists studying them. So saying one is "alpha" means that one has taken on the postition of "top dog"-- or "top wolf" really-- but anyway not the human leader. A drill sargeant is not generally referred to as "alpha". Nor a teacher. Nor is it a term that anthropologists studying human cultures tend to use to describe top ranking individuals in that culture.

And, I was trying to explain what I meant by that certain elusive Quality by means of analogies (seargeant, teacher) that some people might be able to understand more clearly than the stream of adjectives which didn't really get there at all. IMO. I was not trying to liken you or anyone else to a drill sergeant.

i hope this has clarified for you.

I think that unless something major healthwise or etc. comes up with my dog I am going to take a break from rottie.net for the rest of the summer, at least from posting, though perhaps I will do some viewing. The fights, bickering, apparent lack of humor, and quickness to take offence etc. are getting ridiculous. I have a dog who is particularly sensitive to my moods and I don't want to start feeling upset myself by things going on here since it translates to him as he lies at my feet.

That is a very important part of my role with my dog. The one who must keep my own emotions happy, lighthearted and calm because my feelings translate to him and come back out magnified a hundredfold.

In any event the rains have stopped. There is much to be done in the next 3 months before they start again.

My best to you all.

[ILoveRotts]

I'm the Mom...

And that means many things to me......

I love them, play with them, protect them, disipline them, teach/train them etc. My word is final with them as well as with my human child.

That's not to say they come above any member of my family - no but they are my family. They are not human but they are my family.

Yes, my dogs sleep in the beds and on the couches. I do understand why a lot of people can't and shouldn't do this but my dogs understand who's the boss. And we've never had an issue with it.

But that's just me. My human daughter sleeps in bed with us too! She's 1 and we never even bought her a crib. So I guess you could say that I believe in the family bed - the entire family.:D

[SABELLESMOM]

Beckysmom, I believe you are right in your assessment. Perhaps my view of what "alpha" means does differ somewhat, in exactly the way you describe.
I apologise to anyone who thought I was being quick to take offense. I didn't mean to come accross that way. Please don't "vacation" too long from us?

[MontanaRott]

I second that sentiment, Beckysmom, don't stay away too long! You will be missed. Have a good summer and see you as you pop in.

[samanthac]

Originally posted by mmgy
I think what I'm missing when I think of alpha bitch is the emotional side of the relationship. Nothing personal, samantha and sabellesmom, but where does that play into it?

Not at all taken personally. In nature the alpha is exactly what Carina phrased....a benevolent dictator. Wolves, even the alphas can be quite affectionate, but there is NO doubt at all that they are the leader. This is how I run my household.

As my dogs are not humans in fur suits, I do not presume to be a dog in human skin. However, out of respect for my dogs and the things that we do know about canine behavior, I try to create a pack structure with me as the 'alpha' at the top for them similar to what they would create for themselves because I understand that dogs need a structured hierarchy in order to exist happily. This is what they understand and what works well for me and helps me get the understanding and respect I need from my dogs in order for us - two DIFFERENT species - to cohabitate peacefully and smoothly with respect and understanding. I don't pretend to understand their complex sets of emotions, body language and rules, nor do I expect them to understand ours. All I do is try to create an environment in which we both can come to understanding about what each needs and lay down a means of communication that the other can understand.

There is a very strong bond between myself and my dogs...one of mutual understanding and respect...and affection, bred through training. Training is one of the very best ways you can bond with your dog. I do love my dogs...I pet them like everyone else pets their dogs, I play with them, and they get tons of affection. Just because you presume the alpha role does not mean not mean that you do not love your dogs or that their is no emotional attachment.

However, I do not beleive in letting my dogs sleep on the bed, get on my furniture, eat with me, share my food with them or let them walk in front of me into a room or out a door. These are basic pack rules in nature. In nature, the alphas eat first and they do not share their food with subordinate members of the pack. This does not mean that I do not save steak from my plate for them. They just get it after dinner after I have left the table in their own dish. In nature the alpha male and female sleep together and subordinate members of the pack do not sleep with them. It is not because I do not love my dogs...I provide them with nice fluffy beds of their own, I just do not want them in mine. I do not think its cute teetering on the edge of the bed at night, fighting for room. As a human, I do not appreciate dog hair in my bed. And it wreaks havoc with allergies. In nature the alphas always go first, if other dogs rush past them, they are disciplined and learn to stay back out of respect and deference to the alphas. My dogs learn to either walk out the door with me or after me. It is my personal belief based on many hours of research on canine behavior that by allowing my dogs to do these things, I would simply elevate them in my pack structure...or position them as equals.

I watch this daily with my husband. He lays down on the floor with them. He lets them up on the sofa with him. He shares his food with them. He lets them charge ahead of him. I do not do any of this. He would continually turn to me and say, "Why do they listen to you and not to me?' "Why do they always look at you when I tell them to do something?' After four years of explaining to him why he can't do this he is finally starting to understand. He now fully adnits that the dogs see him as an equal and in some cases a subordinate. We experimented for two weeks and he saw how much better the dpgs responded to him when he cut that stuff out and made a few adjustements. Now he's backslid again and the dogs see him as hteir subordinate again.

Sorry to be long winded...canine behavior is a passion of mine and something I have spent many hours delving into. ;) But just because I choose to do things this way does not mean I love my dogs any less than the rest of you. We all do what works for us plain and simple.

[mmgy]

Thanks y'all, for a bit of clarification. I see that I was using the term alpha bitch way too literally;), and imposing my singular experience on the term. Of all the 20+ dogs that have lived with me, I've only had one true alpha bitch, and she was NOT a benevolent dictator-type with the other dogs. She was downright ornery and bossy, and even nasty at times. (My recently departed sweet Delilah!)

As to the lenient spouse thing...yep, that goes on in my house. My husband is always the "best buddy" to the dogs. I'm only the "best buddy" when I choose to be.

:)