2 year old dog - nipping kids

[TrishB]

My sister's dog nipped my niece in the face (didn't break the skin - but it was her face) while outside today. Here's some background:

Niece is 3, almost 4, nephew is 7. Sunny is a not-weiler - Saluki X Shep about 2 years old. They got him a year ago at about a year of age from the pound. He had been there for months (the pound got him at about 7 months of age) with a couple of littermates. He had no training, no socialization.

He's shy and is NOT food driven. He's built like a bullet and can run like the wind. The only time he's excitable is when he's in the yard at which time he completely ignores everyone. Professional training isn't an option for current financial reasons.

Situation: He was outside with the kids, my sister was with them. They were tossing around a frisbee and when it came to my niece, Sunny nipped her in the face.

I do NOT think this was an aggressive move on his part.

I do think that he's never been trained to have bite inhibition. I don't believe he's properly socialized. He's not a 'mouthy' dog - so it's very difficult to teach him bite inhibition.

Sadly, he might not be the best match for my sister's family at this time. Although the kids are good with him, he may have more special needs than they are equipped to deal with.

What do you all think? If you need more information, please ask and I'll do my best to answer.

Note: They will not dump him, but if the kids are at risk (they are in a very kid-friendly neighbourhood with lots of visitors), keeping him won't be an option. They'll take responsibility for him, but not at the sacrifice of their children's safety.

[Rott-Wiley]

"Sunny nipped her in the face." I'm reading your post and I see they have had Sunny for about a year now. He runs like the wind, not food driven and not excitable. Is it possible that Sunny was going for the frisbee and was over stimulated to the point that he ran into your nieces face?

Is this the only time Sunny has had a problem? I realize he hasn't had the best of everything in his life and things could have been a lot better for him. This sounds like one of those situations where you really have to have been there to assess what really happened.

If this were me and this was the first time anything like this ever happened, I think I would cut Sunny a break and watch him like a hawk for awhile and see how him and the kids interact.

Then too, it's never too late to get him into a training class. That may help also.

[Judi W]

They've had him for a year. That seems like a commitment to me. Now that they know that he can be stimulated by a game, wouldn't it be quite simple to put him up when there are games being played that might cause him to get in the middle of them? That's what dog crates or kennel runs are for. Same applies to kid guests. If they are playing video games, dolls or other quiet persuits, no problem. If they are running, throwing or playing active games, put him up. It seems like little enough to do for a dog that otherwise has been a good dog.

[moondog]

After all the flack people get when they say they can't afford training, I don't think it would be fair to let that statement go by without a comment. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, know what I mean? :D

That said, I think I'd avoid putting him in situations that get him overexcited.

[TrishB]

You're all correct. Over stimulation. He needs professional training.

That being said - I'll have to get them to make the commitment to him. While also keeping in mind that the safety of the kids has to take priority.

Maybe I'll do some training classes with them as Parker as the demonstration dog.

[Bruce Lanthier]

Originally posted by TrishB
You're all correct. Over stimulation. He needs professional training.

That being said - I'll have to get them to make the commitment to him. While also keeping in mind that the safety of the kids has to take priority.

Maybe I'll do some training classes with them as Parker as the demonstration dog.

As a prelude to the professional training your idea of classes with Parker would be a great idea. I would even take it a small step further: Have a once a week "class" with your sister and nephew. Start with the basics: You are teaching your sister and nephew along with the dog and Parker knows the basics. Show them how to make Parker sit. They can practice with Parker once they know how. While they are with Parker, you can teach Sunny how to sit. I think it will be relatively easy/quick with an older dog and treats. Once Sunny learns then they can practice with Sunny.

Of course the lessons will have to continue on the days you and Parker aren't there. That's part of the commitment they'll have to make.

[TrishB]

Thanks Bruce - will do. I've also forwarded them the NILIF site. They need to implement it ASAP and consistently.

Wish me luck -

[Beckysmom]

Teaching some yourself sounds good. Putting dog up when games happen sounds really key (aren't Salukis similar to greyhounds and likely to be chasers?).

If not food driven, maybe lure and reward could be frisbee. Maybe as aunt you could make birthday and etc. gifts for the kids and their parents be things related to dog training (classes, kid appropriate books, etc., there is a game called "My Dog Can Do That" which turns training into a game that several people and dogs can play) for awhile. Maybe if you are in a class with Parker the kids and or parents could go with you and at least watch for some ideas on how to do it. Or, there are good videos now.

A 3 year old is pretty young to do any training by any method, but maybe could at least watch, and be able to command a sit perhaps, and maybe there could be "teams"--like you and the 3 year old, and your sister and the seven year old are each a training team. Maybe this is a dog where clicker would be a good thing. At least the 7 year old could use either lure reward or clicker method. And teaching the dog some safe games like retrieve on cue would probably be a very good idea.

Wouldn't a 3 year old's face be pretty much right at normal tooth level for a dog of that type? Seems like the slightest accidental move with mouth toward a toy etc. could easily end up in a nip situation without the dog meaning harm...especially during high excitement, movement of people, toys etc.

A saluki Shepherd combo is likely to be pretty smart, and to get bored easily. Probably especially key to get things right the first time, since it is a likely breed combo to learn on the first time through an exercise. Try really really yummy treats before you decide it definitely is not food motivated. I'll bet it might like bean size bits of rare roast beef. (This is at least based on my shepherd experience. I don't have any saluki experience.)

[Wrath]

There are two parts to bite inhibition: learning to have a soft mouth (don't bite hard), and learning to not put teeth on people's skin or clothes (don't bite at all). I think it's important to work the first part before really drilling home the 2nd because you never know when your dog might be prompted to bite, out of fear, pain, or just entirely too worked up during play-time.

For working on a soft-mouth with a dog that generally isn't mouth at all, you can hold a treat pinched between your thumb and finger rather than in your open palm. If you feel rough teeth when they're going for the treat you give a high-pitched 'ouch' and remove your hand (with the treat) Doggie learns that teeth means no treat and will quickly learn to be extra gentle.

I ALWAYS give treats to our dogs this way so as we're constantly practising bite inhibition and mainting their soft mouth. Though if your neice was tagged in the face by the dog in an over excited state and no skin was broken, I'd say your dog already has a soft mouth and just needs more work on the no bite EVER part.

[girlunderainbow]

I'd have to agree with what everyone has said thus far, and hope that the dog did it accidentally. Along those lines, I think active play like that should not be done around young children. We have big dogs who are absolutely great around kids..but there is no really active play around kids either, as accidents happen. Hope they can get it worked out !