Who's wrong?/public park leash laws.

[mightyrebel]

I had kind of a weird encounter today at a public park here. It's called 'Blue Waters', and is public, of course, and has a boat ramp, picnic tables, benches, a lot of jet ski'ing, etc. going on...and, of course, people out with their dogs. Now, it has it's own signs saying 'Keep all dogs on leashes.', but only in the back of the park where the murky backwaters are, because of the alligators back there,etc. (ie:they're recommending that your dog stay with you back there so he doesn't approach a sunning gator, etc., and become his next meal.) Now, in the front, where the 'blue waters' are...they have 'beware of gator' signs also, but not signs to keep your 'dogs on leash''. So I'm up front taking Rebel into the water, trying to get him used to it, etc. and cool him down, all the while there are 15 drunken idiots standing 50 feet away whose full-grown Dalmation has now come to the water's edge barking at my Rottie pup and me. So now I'm 10 ft. out with my pup, standing between him and the deeper waters where the gators are, trying to keep an eye out for him, etc., and this dog has us basically pinned in the water now. (My pup was very nervous about coming out with him waiting there on shore. He's only 17 weeks old.) So I holler to these guys, "Hey! Could you call your dog? Maybe put him on his leash, or something? (They had one on a post in the ground right by them.) And they come back with, "We don't have to. The only signs in the park say they have to be 'on leash' in back, where the gators sun themselves, not up here." My contention, of course, was, "No, I don't think so. It's still a public park, and all dogs are supposed to be on leash in public parks. The signs in back are just a 'friendly' REMINDER to put them BACK on leash to folks who may have let them off when the park's empty, etc., to protect THEM from the gators. But if there are other people around, ALL dogs are supposed to be on leash at ALL times." Well, there was no talking to these morons, so I just picked up my pup and left. But, is that not so? I mean, isn't that pretty standard nationwide? My understanding has ALWAYS been that ALL dogs have to be on leashes in ANY public place, yes? Just because a park only puts signs up saying so as a reminder in certain parts, doesn't mean it's 'okay' to leave them off in OTHER parts, does it? Just curious, because I was fairly certain I was right, but not sure. I've never actually SEEN anything saying this...it's just always been my understanding from the time I ever went in public with my dogs. Anyone know for sure? Sincerely, MightyRebel


[ June 25, 2001: Message edited by: mightyrebel ]

[rottnkidd]

might rebel- Sorry to hear your otherwise nice outing, turned out so poorly. I don't know what the laws are nationwide, but regardless, these jerks could've seen your pup was a bit traumatized by all the commotion their dogs were causing, and if they didn't leash them, they should have at least removed the dog's from the water's edge and quieted them. Now if those would've been adult Rottweilers, unleashed, causing a disturbance, someone would've been calling the State Police!! Isn't that the truth?

[mightyrebel]

Exactly. My Rott is still a 40 lb. pup, and has never met a hand he didn't want to lick,etc., yet still, you can hear all the "Look, he's got a Rott!" comments as I pass by, followed quickly by everyone's horror story about how they were almost 'killed' by a Rott once, etc. Yet noone seemed to have any problem with these guy's full-grown Dalmation (who, from the info. I've read on them, are NOT dogs even recommended to be owned in homes with children, due to their VERY skittish and capricious history of 'unprovoked aggressiveness'. Something about how severe the inbreeding has been to keep such a definitive look, etc., which has resulted in the breed just not being very well-tempered over the years, etc. How true that is, I don't know. Maybe it's just another bad rap like Rott's get, but still, it's common knowledge, and noone seemed to mind the angry, barking Dalmation holding us 'hostage in the lake/pond' full of alligator's.) Somehow, we were the bad guy's in the whole deal. There was even another mixed breed dog standing by the side watching this wearing a red bandana with no leash on, and again nobody was saying anything. MY dog was in the water with ME, and was STILL the only dog on a leash in the vicinity. And like I said, I'm fairly certain the law is that ALL dogs have to be on leash in ALL public parks, etc., because the park not 4 miles away is FULL of signs saying this. (But then again, they spend a lot more money on the other park. Nonotheless, the laws still apply, I'm sure.) They're both 'City of Victoria' parks. Can you imagine if I showed up when he's full-grown, and took HIM off leash and let him just wander around the kid's swimming area? Man, they'd have a fit! Oh well...the cross you bear to own a Rott, I guess. Sincerely, MightyRebel :p :D ;)

[Dagos-Dad]

Rebel,
2rotties is correct, you should find out what agency has responsibility for that park. As for leash laws being standard that is a not true, at least not up here in VT. The town I live in just passed a leash law and it covers specific streets not the whole town. I know of some towns that do not have any kind of leash law or any kind of dog officer to call with problems. In your case I would say you have some kind of recourse as you were in a park not on the street and the guys were drunk, which I’m sure there has to be an ordinance against public intoxication. As Rottnkid said if it had been your Rott barking at the cute little dalmation it would have been a different situation

[Carina43]

Rebel...I would guess that if leash laws are in effect in one city park, then the same applies to all those city's parks, regardless of sign placement. It would be easy to check by calling that agency. Regardless of the laws, those jerks with their out of control dal were rude & inconsiderate. Well,,,dalmations have been in *cute* movies like 101 Dalmations. Rottweilers have been portrayed as mean, like in Omen & Ferris Beulers Day Off...dals are Disney dogs, they can't be "mean."

Anyhow, I am pretty sure my city (Denver) has leash laws in effect city-wide. However, there are several off leash dog areas in local state parks....big areas & miles of trails, which is nice.

rebel...you were right, they were jerks.

[RSQRottweiler]

Rebel~
Sorry to hear about a good day gone sour just because of a stupid dog owner. I would call the park/recreation office to check on the leash laws and whether they exist throughout the park. It seems like they should be the same throughout the park, but maybe that's just me.

Audrey

[patty_k]

As I understand it, regardless of leash laws, you have to be in control of your dog at all times. So, if on or off the leash a dog attacks another, or bites someone the owner is responsible for not controlling it. If the dog is on the leash, then you have a better defense, but not complete defense.
If the dalmation was to bite, or attack anyone or your pup the owner would be in trouble, regardless of signs or rules of the park. Kind of stupid for them not to just put him on a leash, so you could feel comfortable, I am sure there are people who would run and scream if I let my rottie off leash, even if allowed to do so- at that time I would certainly put her back on leash so no one would be upset.
I wish I could find a dog park around, every park in my town is a no dog park, and fines are up to $1000.

Patty

[SelkeysCompanion]

The Dalmation people were rude.
In Montreal parks belong to Ville de Montréal and you have to keep the LEASH on,some arias like swings&swimming have signs"NO DOGS $300. FINE".Not all parks have signs stated LEASH ONLY,it's just known.Mind you,many dogs can be seen running off leash,if these free dogs are at the park at a time no people are using it and if the owners of these dogs have controll and keep their dogs close by WHY NOT?This would take a lot of courtesy on the part of dog owners,sharing a public park and knowing it belongs to everyone.I'm not saying that I let Selkey run free at our local parks,cause we know your not supposed to do that. ;) :D ;)

[JROD]

Mightyreb:

As Patty K pointed out - dogs have to be on a lead and the person at the other end of that lead has to be in control of the dog if the dog is not contained. That's on public or private property. I live in CA, where they have public zoned beaches and parks that are lead-optional. The county basically gives you permission to enter at your own risk if you choose not to lead your dog, but you're still liable for your dog. So it doesn't matter what the signs say, you are still responsible for your dog.

You were absolutely right (and smart) to ask these idiots put a lead on their dog. If something would have happened you would have at least had some defense on your side. It's all about covering your a** these days..

[redmoss]

Thank goodness the group of idiots didn't have a rott because they sound like the worst dog owners, inconsiderate and irresponsible.

Here's a story for you:

I was at the beach during the off-season when dogs are allowed off-leash and I was playing frisbee with my 2 pits when this huge pit bull runs over. The owner is nonchalantly walking down the beach towards us. I'm holding my male by his harness and my female is standing in front of me. The dog proceeds to pee on my female for the second time and I gently nudge him with my foot as I tell him to stop.

The owner who is still taking his sweet time to arrive on scene yells at me about kicking his dog and I figure he's joking because the dog hardly moved as
I used no force because he was just being annoying and I wanted his attention.

The guy arrives and Emily greets him. He asks how would I like it if he kicked my dog and proceeds to kick her and she yelps at which point I am ready to attack this moron.

I tell him that his dog had peed on mine twice and he tells me I know nothing about dog behavior because this is a sign of dominance. (I know more about dogs than he ever will.) I wonder how the reason makes it okay and think to myself, thank goodness I didn't have my dad's rottweiler because she never would have tolerated being urinated on.

He goes away but his dog makes a break for it and starts running towards us again and this time he catches the dog and punches it. Stupidly, I yell that it's not okay for me to kick his dog but he can punch and he responds by calling me a very choice word.

Point of the story? Some people should not own dogs regardless of breed because they're, the humans, are volatile, with no common sense, always looking for trouble and ready for a fight and it doesn't matter if you're right because they are imbeciles.

[SelkeysCompanion]

Redmoss:your female dog sounds very nice,your lucky she's not agressive,then again I'v NEVER met an agressive Pit. ;)

[ June 28, 2001: Message edited by: SelkeysCompanion ]

[redmoss]

Aaaggghhh! I've got to share the idiocy of some irresponsible owners.

For a couple of years now I've had run-ins with neighbors around the corner who have Westies and Am. Eskimos.

It all started when I was charged by a dog that charged me and my pit and to prevent my pit from harming this aggressive dog I picked up my 45 lb. dog. You'd think at this point that the owner who did nothing as her dog ran towards us would be compelled to remove her dog that was now leaping up to get at my dog but she just stood there yelling for her dog to come. She never apologized nor even acknowledged our existence.

There have been other similar incidents and I wrote a letter to them telling them that their dogs may be injured or killed by a stray dog or even by a callous owner who wouldn't mind seeing a white ball of fluff torn apart. I even included my name, address and phone number in case they wanted to talk to me.

Since then I've practically given up on the belief that they even love their dogs because when I was walking by with Emily we were again charged by the Eskimo and we just stood there until I remarked, "Hey!", because the Eskimo was attacking my dog. At this point the owner hit her dog with her keys on a chain and chased the yelping dog into the bushes. It was disgusting to watch and I told her not to hit the dog and reported the incident to the Animal Control Officer.

Sunday night, I was taking three of my dogs for a quick walk around the block before going out and the woman started yelling for me to stop because her dogs were out. I said that it was unbelievable and she told me not to be an a****** and to walk down a different street! She expects me to go another route with my well behaved leashed dogs because she cannot control her charging pets, abide the leash law nor keep them safely fenced in the yard.

[Karyn]

Oh yeah! Had Cromwell out walking in our park - which is a leash park. This guy and his lady friend were in the field with two pit bull puppies. Well Cromwell wanted to "visit" and one of the pit puppys came close, I asked if his dog was friendly and assured him that Cromwell was. Now this puppy is off leash - maybe about a year old female. She approaches sniffing then suddenly goes for Cromwell's nose and bites him drawing blood. The guy of course says, "she always does that but she doesn't mean any harm". No harm, my dog is bleeding. Cromwell is looking at me with the "What happened? Why did she do that?" look. Any how it was just a scrape and Cromwell was okay. A couple days later, I am walking Cromwell again and again this guy is in the park with his unleashed pit bull.. the pit is snarling, barking and lunging at every dog that passes by. This is crazy! I told him that since he has chosen that breed he has a very big responsibilty to socialize his dog in a controled training enviroment. And he better do it now while she is still young or there will be a sad ending. I said it nicely as a fellow owner of one of those agressive breeds. It owed it to the dog and the community. I have not seen him now for over a week. Hopefully, he has taken the hint.