white patch

[MASON_1]

Hi all, this is my first posting, i am a first time rottie owner. i bought a dog from a registered breeder and he was stolen 8 days later:( . after a period of time i thought it was time to buy another one, this time it was from a byb cause i just didnt have the $900 i put up for the first one, i know what ur going o say about byb but it was a decision i made and have not regreted it because mason is a wonderful dog. i got him at 8 weeks, he is now 5 months and he is an absolout angel except for the occasional stubborness. i have 2 questions, Mason has a white patch on his chest, i think its cute, but is it a problem, my second question is that at 6 months old i am sending him to obediance training, but the way it works is that the dog is taken away and boarded at the facility for 7 days and returns home fully trained witha garuntee that the dog will perform the task first time he is told or your money back, is this general practice or should the dog be trained in a different way.

Cheers, Ali

[Carina43]

Hi Ali, I'm sorry your pup got stolen, how on earth did that happen?!

Anyhow - if the white patch isn't very large, it may disappear by about a year old...otherwise it's not a problem unless you plan on showing your dog. It's quite a common fault, I had a Rottie with a white spot that never went away.

I would NOT send your dog away to be trained in seven days - DON'T DO THAT!!!! Please. :) For one thing, training is an ongoing thing, it simply does not get "done" in seven days, never mind with a 5 month old puppy. That is absolutely ridiculous. Any place that is making such a claim does not deserve one single penny of your money. YOU need to learn how to interact with and train your dog - God knows what these people are doing to train your dog, it is an awful idea and not common practice, bad bad bad idea - have I made myself clear? :)

Find a good beginning obedience class that uses positive training methods, and go to it - with your dog. I know for a fact they have those where you live. Then keep on with the training until he's about two years old, because as he matures he'll keep needing reinforcement, and will go through all sorts of phases.

Also I strongly urge you to get a good book about training and dog behaviour - Rottweilers for Dummies, anything by Ian Dunbar, Jean Donaldson...I'm sure others will have suggestions. I think you really need to educate yourself about Rottweilers, training, and dogs in general. (I mean that in a nice way.)

Do a bunch of reading on the various forums here, I think you'll find it very interesting. There's a lot of very knowlegable people here.

And promise me you won't send your dog away to this place. It sounds terrible.

[JD102175]

Sorry to hear about your first pup. THat must have been heartbreaking for you :(


I agree with everything Carina said.

Training is a great way for you to bond with Mason. I also think that you can't send a dog away and "poof" he's trained. Training is an ongoing thing, and should be, with any dog.


Jaime

[spidey]

Hi and welcome! Congrats on the new puppy.

I second everything Carina said - you need training as much as your dog does, and training him yourself allows for bonding (very important to your relationship with your dog), not to mention you learning how to train him in the first place. Training is not a one-shot deal like neutering, it's a lifetime process. Also, remember that you are responsible for your dog's welfare, if you are not present to see how he's being treated, how do you know what's been going on with him? How do you know that he's not being seriously mistreated? Sending him away is not in any way going to give you useful and reliable training, you really should be doing it yourself, in order to be able to work with him throughout his life. I also question how they can provide a guarantee, dogs all learn at different rates, I'd run the other way from this place if I were you, it sets off all kinds of warning bells for me. Why not sign up for a training class, you and your dog will have fun, and then YOU are the trainer.

[MASON_1]

thanx for the info guys, i appreciate it. i did alot of reading and research before i purchased a rottie so i do know a fair bit, Rocky (my first pup) was stolen from my house when it was burgaled, dog thefts are very common in my area especially rottweilers and american pit bulls, i heard they train them to fight:( , i hope not. anyway this training place i was telling you about invites you over to see first hand the methods they use when training and they come very highly recomended, they have won numerous awards and even train police dogs, thats why i was interested, i would never send mason without checking it out first. if you are interested this is their website:
www.dogtrainers.com.au

[MASON_1]

Sorry, one more thing, if you have a look at the website they also invite you back anytime to continue training, so its not just the 7 days of training.

Cheers, Ali

[spidey]

They can have all the credentials in the world, but the fact that they "guarantee" that your dog will be trained in a week sends up huge warning flags, there are no guarantees with living creatures - this tells me that they have incentive to rush dogs who need more time (police dogs are carefully selected for their job, they're selected because of their temperament and willingness to work, companion dogs are not usually selected using the same criteria (the traits which are most important in a police dog are not necessarily the same traits which are most important in a companion dog), so IMO experience with training police dogs does not necessarily have any really relevant relationship to training companion dogs - the basic techniques may be the same, but the dogs themselves are often very different, and you need to tailor the training to the dog).

And, no matter what they show you their methods are like when you visit, the fact remains that you are not there to see what's happening with your dog. This happens all the time in the horse training world - you send your horse to a trainer whose methods you think you understand, only to find out that what they tell you and show you they do is nothing like what can actually happen when you aren't there. A serious-enough bad experience can give a dog lifelong issues (which YOU will have to deal with). I don't know any reputable obedience trainers who would rather train the dog than train the owner to train the dog (extreme cases of behavioural problems excepted). It's just not the best way to do it, and I'm deeply suspicious of any trainer who'd tell you otherwise (what is their rationale behind this method? Why do they say is it better for them to train the dog, rather than training you to train the dog? I wouldn't be surprised if at least part of it is based on the fact that, if they don't actually teach you how to train, you're dependent on them more or less permanently, which is good for them, and bad for you). You are the owner, you should do the training. You are training your dog every single time you interact with it, whether you mean to or not, so you may as well learn how to do it properly. There are no quick fixes, there is no time frame, training is a lifelong activity which should grow into a wonderful communication and cooperation between you and your dog, not something that a stranger does in a week, like leaving your car at the shop for repairs. Training is FUN! :)

Aside from that, training your dog is, IMHO, too important in terms of bonding and learning (on your part) for long-term maintenance, to let someone else do it for you. It's more important that YOU are trained, than the dog, because then you are the one with the knowledge, which you can use to train the dog. I look at it this way: if you only want to know enough French to be able to order a coffee in a restaurant, all you need is a dictionary, but if you actually want to speak the language, so that you can talk to people and learn about them, you need to learn to speak French. Sending your dog away to be trained is superficial, like just buying a dictionary, learning to train him yourself is like learning to speak French. And you'll be missing out on a great opportunity not only to learn something yourself, but to learn about your dog, and how his mind works.

I hope Judi W weighs in here, she's a very experienced professional trainer. These are just my opinions, but I at least strongly suggest you do a bit more research about training before you commit to this. Good luck.

[MASON_1]

hey spidey thx for the reply, i am taking in everything u have to say, but did u have a look at their website? it was my fault i didnt make myself clear, they say its usually 7 days but the dog is kept for as long as he needs, moreover if the dog needs more training i am welcome back anytime without charge, so it will be in their best interest to train my dog properly so i wont have to come back and waste their time, also i am given lessons with my dog before he leaves the centre so as i can help train him aswell.

[Anne]

Mason I am in Australia also. I have heard of this training/kennels set up and lets just say I would not leave my dog there for training. There was quite some posting on an Australian dog forum about them some time ago. I would go the way of training either with private trainer for a couple of lessons and then to a training class that your private trainer probably runs. NO NO I would not send my dog there.

[Carina43]

Hmmm, Mason, I looked at the site and wasn't impressed. Maybe because I have a kneejerk bad reaction to the phrase "As Seen On TV!" :D Frankly I wouldn't touch that place with a ten foot pole based on their site - and realise phrases like "teaching police dogs" and "winning many awards" may be utterly meaningless.
Quotes like this one seem just wrong: "When a dog looks at us he sees us as dogs. He can not accept that we are different." make me wonder...or am I off base?

Maybe Ann or someone else can give you a better idea of how those prices would compare to a class - here's in the US an 8 week class is usually quite reasonable, under $100. You and your dog would get much more out of a class - and they are fun.

Also I don't like that they sell so many dogs, what's up with that?

I'm sorry about your last pup & your burglary, that's sad.

[Judi W]

Just listen regarding this training because this is important. You do not establish a relationship with your dog by throwing money at it. On one hand you say you didn't have enough money to buy your pup from a proper breeder, but now you have enough money to send the pup off and have someone else do the job you should be doing yourself. There are many accomplished trainers on this forum and trust me, we don't have our dogs trained in a few weeks. Owning a good dog takes an investment of time and effort on your part.

[KatMc]

Congratulations on you new pup, and I'm sorry about your other one.

Vienna also has a white patch on her chest, I think it gives her 'character' .

There is also a place here that 'trains' your dog the same way. They won't give you a price as each one is different. They keep your dog 7-10 days (or how long it takes), then you get personal training with the dog, THEN class style training.

I have a problem with someone trianing my dog for 7-10 days w/o my presence. Many years ago, there was a 'story' that one dog they had trained (still had in their trianing session) had gone for the trainers face (of course it was a Rottie). That and some other things I had heard made me a little cautious. Not too mention my boss had 2 dogs from there (Corso's), BOTH dogs were returned to them for aggresive behavior. Whether from training or the fact that they knew nothing about these dogs before they decided to breed and place them (they have since gotten out of those dogs).

Vienna is young enough for me to work with, I thought about Bella, but she has enough issues and I'm afraid someplace like that would make her worse.

Good luck,

Kathy

[alexav]

I have to vote "NO" on sending the dog for training, but then I always do!:D
Unless you have some physical handicaps that prevent you from learning to work with your own dog, you will be missing out on ALOT. For the prices they charge (Yep, I checked out the site you posted quite thoroughly) you could take your pup through many group classes and have some left over for private lessons too.
As for the white spot...It is considered a disqualifying fault in the breed standard but other than looking cute, (IMO ;) )it is harmless. Since you bought the dog from a BYB admittedly, you weren't serious about showing him, right? I'm glad you got just what you wanted, a wonderful pet. He sounds wonderful.
Neuter him, train him, and love him.:D

[spidey]

did u have a look at their website? it was my fault i didnt make myself clear, they say its usually 7 days but the dog is kept for as long as he needs, moreover if the dog needs more training i am welcome back anytime without charge, so it will be in their best interest to train my dog properly so i wont have to come back and waste their time, also i am given lessons with my dog before he leaves the centre so as i can help train him aswell.

Fair enough. The stuff that Carina quoted about dogs seeing us as dogs sends up HUGE warning flares - it makes me suspect that these people adhere to the old-school thinking of doing "alpha rolls" and that kind of (IMO) junk. I think that kind of training sets the dog up for thinking he's got a shot at being in charge - you don't WANT him to think you're a dog. Just because you may fill the role of pack leader to the dog doesn't mean that the dog views you as a dog, you are NOT a dog, you are a person, dogs are plenty smart enough to figure this out, and I think dogs should view all people as above them, not just the ones who're big and strong enough to "alpha roll" them. The fact remains that this is just not the best way to train your dog, you have no control over what happens to him there, and you could take a bunch of classes WITH him for the same money. You asked what we thought, I (and others) have explained why sending your dog away for training is not the right way to go, and nobody is likely to change their minds about that no matter WHAT that website says. It's completely your decision, but it's the entire concept of sending your dog away for training which I find objectionable, for a host of reasons which I've outlined already, so no matter how good these people you're considering are, that doesn't change the fact that how they do it is not something I agree with. I'm not arguing with you, I'm trying to explain why I think this is a bad idea in principle, and that this has nothing to do with the specific training school at all. Although now I've learned more about them, I like them even less. Sorry. :(

Is there a specific reason you don't want to go to classes?

[MASON_1]

Thanx guys, its great that i can rely on people with alot of experiance. Due to the great amount of negative feedback i dont think i will be sending mason there. i did attend a puppy pre-school class with him when he was very young and he knows sit and stay pretty well, i also tought him how to shake hands which only took 5 minutes (he is very smart). to answer your question spidey, i was hesitant about attending classes because i work 6 days a week and attend uni full-time, (before you say anything i DONT neglect my dog i personally spend atleast 3 hours a day with him and my parents and sister are with him all day, i also regurarly take him to the lake where he loves to swim) another factor with me not sending him anymore is the fact that he will be away from me for so long, i dont think i could handle it, we are so attached to each other that when he sleeps outside he always sleeps under my window(how cute). anyway thanx for the info guys it was very helpful, ill try and find some classes i can attend with him.:D