We were attacked and my dog ended up hurting the attacker....

[Echowe]

Both my dogs were on leash across the street from my house and here come this little peke mix charging at us. I told my dogs to sit and the peke came up to Tayler and growling and nipping at her. Next thing I know Tayler nipped back and grab the little guy by the neck shaking him up and down. Luckily Spencer was by my side and didn't join in the 'attack'. All the neighbors came out trying to seperate them. I thought Tayler was going to kill him for sure.... Someone spray water at them and seperated them. All we knew the peke was bleeding somewhere and his owner rushed him to the vet. Tayler is only aggressive if provoked and plays with many dogs. Someone suggested I muzzle her when go for walks so at least she can't hurt the unfriendly ones. But what if next time it was a big dog who charge at us and she is muzzled and can't even defend herself? What could I have done this time? My dogs were on leash and the little guy wasn't. He was the aggressor and Tayler fought back. I know I am not at fault but the whole situation makes me sick. I didn't even know if I should punish her. Of course I was also all shook up and didn't even think to punish her that moment. She knows her command 'leave it' but all I can think of was NO No No at that time. I am not even sure if she would drop the little guy with the leave it command. How would I know for sure she would listen to that command in situation like this? She is not food/toys aggressive at all and drop whatever I tell her to. I think I might start with walking them seperately also. This is the second time she fought on a provoked fight and both times she was on leash.... Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[ March 07, 2001: Message edited by: Echowe ]

[Mick Trainer]

Firstly let me say too stop this sort of thing happening again youmust have control over you dog at all times. If I read corretly (please clarify if I am wrong) you were across the street at the time? This is ito far away if true. Yes the little dog came at her etc but you also must have control over the dog so as to do as such as is reasonably possible to stop such a situation from taking place. All dogs must have the right to defend themselves but as owners we must do all we can to stop such incodents. At least of you had of been standing beside your dog you could have done more. This is not critisism but just advice.

There are many things that you can do to help teach your dogs to let go if such a incident happened again. The first is to teach a out command. It sounds like you have started this work. I sugest that you seek the help of a trainer to continue this work so that the dog will out when acting in drive. A lot of obedience when taught always when the dog is out of drive will fall down once the dog is in drive. A experienced trainer should have to trouble teaching you this (however for me to type it would take a huge amount of time).

However of course prevention is better than cure so I would also look into training your dog in an area where other dogs are working in drive which may instigate your dogs beehavior. A prime position for this can be at a school where some protection training is taking place. As the dogs bark and carry on this may instigate your dog to activate it's drive. In this enviornment you will be able to teach your dog that it must remain calm when others around it are going crazy.

I would also encourage you to teach a "leave it" command (or what ever word you like) which means that it is to avoid what ever object it is looking at before it becomes a fight.

Hope that this helps.

Feel free to ask any questions you may have.

Mick.

[WorkinDogz]

I'm a little confused too Were you WITH your dogs or were you across the street?

Either way; I would strongly suggest that you walk only ONE dog at a time. Neither of your dogs is trained well enough (not because you are a bad owner; but because your dogs are young..) that you can give them the correction when needed without worrying about the "monkey see; monkey do" thing.

I only think muzzling is the answer if you insist that both dogs "must" be walked together...until you can get into an industrial strength behavior modification/training program with a professional trainer. At least Tayler won't be able to do damage to another dog (her fault or not..you KNOW how it appears to bystanders)

Start looking for a trainer ASAP!

[Monika Malow]

I am wondering why her dog should be muzzled when the other dog was clearly the one that was started the attack? Hers (his) were on leash and attacker off. Why should the dog being attacked not have a right to defend itself?? People that let their little aggressive dogs run free around the neighbourhood piss me off. I don't know how many times I have had to yell and kick (now spray with real lemon juice) other peoples loose dogs. The owner of the loose dog should be fined!!

[ March 08, 2001: Message edited by: Monika Malow ]

[WorkinDogz]

Because Monika. It's a Rottweiler and she obviously can't stop her dog from grabbing another dog right now; whether hers is the attacker or the attackee.

Besides..it's a PEKE.....rather "puntable" and rather easy to get away from.

No control with 2 dogs; one having dog aggression issues WELL BEFORE this incident!

[RottnKid1]

A lot of socialization and training is in order. Although true that the Peke was the one being aggressive and attacking, the Rottweiler should not have taken such extreme action. Although there is always that one chance in a million, I feel quite certain that my dogs would not have reacted so strongly. Yes, they may have reacted in surprise and given a quick bite, but more likely, they would've given a strong verbal warning and used their feet to fend off the dog. Of course, I may be that I'm being unfair because my Rottweilers are used to dealing with young pups who are "too big for their britches" and a Dachshund who has no qualms about bossing the Rottweilers around, protecting her space, etc.

[DianaC]

Even thought another dog started the "arguement" it doesn't make your dog the innocent party. When I walk my Westie people are always coming up to me with their dogs and most of the time the dogs are of leads and come rushing up to us. I pick her up until I ascertain that they are friendly. But of course with a Rotti that's not an option, I used to keep my Rotti away from most dogs while out walking. He was such a friendly guy that it worried me that someone else's dog would start a fight and their dog would would actually no matter how small it was hurt my Rotti. He was such a wuss and if a dog growled at him he wanted to take off, unless of course it was behind a fence then he'd bark at them. My Westie loves to bark at the Rotti Guard dogs down the road from us and they bark back at her, but most of the time they just come up to the fence and she just stands and watches them. whoops I've gone off the subject.

[RottnKid1]

Diane,

There isn't a single dog of mine who's a wuss and any one of them would defend themselves against a serious threat, but they wouldn't use any more force than necessary to subdue a small dog who was attacking them. If a small dog such as your Westie came up to them and wasn't attacking, they wouldn't harm it, though they would probably dance around to prevent the dog from sniffing their privates. My dogs don't like to be sniffed in that area until they've already met the dog - though, of course, they think it's fine for them to sniff private areas :).
Now, to get back to the subject at hand. I think the Rottweiler should've been corrected for such a harsh reaction to what seemed to be a rather minor threat (according to the post). If one of my dogs had reacted that way, I would immediately engage in further and serious training to include socialization with small dogs (under extremely controlled circumstances). I do understand how Echowe feels since it was his dog who was attacked, but as Rottweiler owners and for the good of the breed, we must train and prepare for such incidents. I would be very angry at the OWNER of the Peke and, if there's a leash law in that area, would report the person for allowing their dog to run free. Echowe's dog never should've been put in that position to begin with, but it's a lesson learned.

[amano the indian flautist]

How about when walkinbg that rott
And if your rott encounters other dog aggression
Giving the sit command?
Isn't it part of a dogs "instinctual programming" to defend itself when attacked.
However neither you or I are in the bush...
We live unfortunately in a world where our favurite breed seems to have been chosen as the number one scapegoat for "aggressive dog incidents"[blah blah et al}
Therefore would it not be therefore prevalent to say m'lud/m'lady that positve reinforcement based obedience training at the earliest appropriate age is a far better earlier prevention than a later cure ????
So what I mean is is not to avoid other dogs then all you do is putting the problem on hold.I am not an expert but the idea which i have to share is to take the dog and somehow for his/her part correct it{by positive reinforcement}.So then you cannot be the one to blame for"unsociable" behaviour.
Any one have any comments on this?
There's my learning curve and two cents

[Echowe]

Thanks for all the replies.
Let me first clear on a few things. I started walking my dogs crossing the street from my house when I heard someone yelled OH NO.... I turned and saw this peke running toward us. I immediately told my dogs to sit. When the peke came up, I didn't expect it to be growling and showing it's teeth. My dogs had their head down trying to sniff the peke but the peke was already 'attacking'. I tried to pull the dogs away but it was too late.
Update: The peke is fine. He had a few stitches on the neck and his eyes were injured. Vet said he will be sore for a while but should be fine.
I appreciated all the comments. I have called my trainer and will work on the leave it command along with dealing with her aggression. I guess she only knows 'leave it' under calm situation. She needs to do it no matter what the situation is. I will also walk them seperately until I get more control with each. I will then work to better control both together. I am inexperience with dog fights and panicked myself. I need to remember to stay calm. Most loose dogs we see either ignore us or they come to sniff and then we walk away. I do try to avoid loose dogs. When I see people with dogs coming, I would step off the curb telling my dogs to sit. We wait for the others to walk by first. It was never a problem. I think it is a great idea to train Tayler outside dog trainer school so she can learn with a different type of distraction. And yes, because they are Rottweilers, I have the extra responsibilities. I guess I am lucky it was a small dog and he wasn't hurt badly. It is another eye openning lesson for me. It could be worst. What if it were a bigger dog? What if I held my dogs by their collars in the first place instead of have them sit. Would I have better control? I just didn't expect the peke aggressive action. Would holding my dogs on the collars alert them of something wrong??? Other than working hard on training, what else can I do? Next time if it were a bigger more aggressive dog, what should I do?

[ March 08, 2001: Message edited by: Echowe ]

[WorkinDogz]

"Next time" it should be much easier to control your dog because you should only be walking ONE DOG AT A TIME and will be able to focus your attention on THAT dog.

"What if..." What if worms had machine guns? Bet we wouldn't go around stepping on them.

Your training and reconditioning will give you the tools you need to avoid situations.

I'm glad you recognize how serious this is and aren't making the *typical* excuses we so often hear. :)

[Bruce Lanthier]

What should a person do? Suppose your dog listens very well and doesn't make a move without your ok in this situation. Then, the little dog BITES your dog (your dog still doesn't do anything without your ok). Do YOU kick the little dog to get it away from your dog? If you try and walk away I assume the little dog is still going to bite/attack, so what would you(a person) do? Or perhaps what SHOULD you do? I know you shouldn't "what if" but no one recommended what to do if this happened and your dog WAS listening to your commands.

[Echowe]

I must admit I am very disappointed with myself. I am not prepared to have two dogs. I now understand why many of you would discourage others for getting a second dog. Enjoy your first one.... Having the space, time for training and money for vet/food/toy/med aren't the only issues. Dealing with just dog behaviors at all situations, being able to handle both dogs at the same time all the time are often overlooked. It is hard enough to understand and handle one dog sometimes. I am learning a lot from you guys with my mistakes. It is my intention to keep my two dogs and I will do my best with them. I know I can get all the help I need. I do have a great trainer and I have you guys. I do enjoy my dogs but I will also go back to single dog ownership after these guys.

[ March 08, 2001: Message edited by: Echowe ]

[K9-man]

03/08/2001 12:05 PM CST

Originally posted by Echowe:
I do enjoy my dogs but I will also go back to single dog ownership after these guys.

Don’t let this discourage you from multiple dog ownership. There are plenty of people who 2 or more dogs and love it. Remember thread: http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/cgi...12&t=002641&p= ?

It’s just a matter of getting things under control. :)

[Echowe]

Yes, I remember your last post. I also mentioned back then I would go back to one dog. :) Two dogs are a lot of fun I admit. I am not afraid of the extra responsibility either. I have my taste of multi dogs experience and my cats experience. I just think one dog suits me best. I know many members here has more than one pets and I am glad it works out for many people.
With this situation, I need to know what I can do more for my dogs whether we are at fault or not. It is upsetting but I need the lesson. You guys really are a great help. Thank you very much. :o
I am also feeling better too.

[ March 08, 2001: Message edited by: Echowe ]