dog culture differences around the world

[Apamaria]

ok, here we go (lousy subject line but didn't quite know how to put it shortly) :)

I still haven't got any statistics, but I'll start off with Rottweilers here in Finland, and what I know from reading the Finnish Rottweiler Association's magazine, and their discussion forum on the net, and what I know/feel myself. The rotti is quite a popular breed here, ranking somewhere in the top ten of most popular breeds.

Many of you say that owning a rottie in the states could affect your insurance or ability to rent apartments and so on. Now, I get a feeling this is only because the US is so big on legal issues/sueing for almost anything. It can't be based on some fact that rottweilers are especially nasty creatures, or is it? I admit that here in Finland there is often talk of a bad reputation that rottis have, but it is more along the lines of not getting along with other dogs, rather than any unfounded aggression towards people. Rottweilers are thought to be very friendly and calm, although good guard dogs when the need arises. I personally have never met anyone who was scared of my dog, so I guess the bad reputation the rottpeople speak of has not spread further than the dog circuit.

Neutering/spaying, which already came up on another thread, is quite uncommon here. Mostly it is done for medical reasons, prostate troubles, pyometra, and such. Sometimes also because oversexuality has made the dog miserable or unable to work with.

Finland has a population of 5 million people, and an estimated 550 000 dogs, of which 400 000 are pure breds. So we do have quite a lot of dogs :)
We don't crate our dogs.
A finnish vet wouldn't know what "debarking" is. (not to even mention declawing of cats!)
Finnish rottweilers compete in search, rescue, Schutzhund/bitework, obedience and so on. many are just family pets, like my QB.

Petstores: i could never imagine a dog being bought from a petstore. Not allowed here, the only animals that can be sold in petstores are birds, rodents and fish. We have small breeders, the association is very strict with it's guidelines, and the couples to breed have to be approved by the "breeding inspector". All puppies appear on the puppy list in the rottweiler magazine, with show and working results for both parents, as well as hip and elbow results. There probably are people breeding outside the official association, but at least not enough to become a problem.

Strays: unheard of, hence really no need for the kind of rescues that abound in the USA. There is of course cruelty to animals everywhere in the world, so dogs/animals acquired through the police go to the animal rescue of the county in question. From there they will be either adopted out or put down, depending on circumstances.

By law, puppies under 5 months old are allowed to be off leash.

Well, that's for starters, lets get some discussion going here!

Anna + QB + YG

[SpotsNRotts]

Thats it! I'm moving to Finland!!! ;) :D

[rasmy]

Me too I'm coming....

I live In Egypt, it is completely different than the US and also it is different than Finland..

The dog popularity here in Egypt is not big, that is because not every house can afford getting a big dog and taking care of, but you will find good dogs, 95% of dogs owned by people are purebred! Stray dogs are found everywhere, but the government is working on it to try to eleminate the problem, we have one or two rescue groups for dogs here in Egypt.

Rottweilers are becoming a very popular breed after the GSD, people here also love pittbulls.

It is getting better here, people are much more aware now of dogs and how to feed them and how to breed them, however it is not uncommon that you meet someone who is doing everything wrong with a dog.

Spaying/neutring is not so popular here. Breeding is an individual act which is not organised, most people that breed got a male and female dogs and they breed them, most of the time with no sufficient experience, but as I said it is getting better.

Most of the good purebred dogs, especially breeds that are other than GSD are imported there are known dealers for imported dogs.

Petstores somtimes have dogs but not all the time cause they are afraid that dogs are geting larger and not sold. Most of the time they have fish and birds and cats.

Imported purebred dogs cost around $400-700 or more.

I hope this help and lets here somemore.

Oh by the way, we don't have dog shows here in Egypt.
Petproducts industry is not that good, there are collars, leashes and Dry food made in Egypt but they are not of a very high quality.

[poohbearsmom]

I think there are many, many factors that play out here in the USA, that affect the way the rottie is looked at here, and that add to the pet overpopulation problems, etc....

1. Education. With a population of just over 5million in your country, (a population smaller than most large cities here in the US), you most undoubtedly have a very high level of education, and a pretty high standard of living overall. While higher education is available to just about anyone who strives to get it here, there are a lot of folks who don't.

There is quite a bit of what I call "apathy" in this country - people who just do things the easy way, not necessarily the right way.
More often than not, people purchase pets here like they would purchase a candybar at the grocer. We don't have "breed wardens", persay, unless they are affiliated with a club like USRC. So, your average "Joe", who bought a puppy from your average "back yard breeder", is not equipped with the knowledge to even seek out ethical dog clubs, etc....

There is a growing segment of the population here that uses dogs such as the rottie, ABPT, and other large powerful dogs as status symbols to accentuate their own "toughness". There are also those who obtain these breeds, and with little or no knowledge of dog behavior, they unwittingly turn these working dogs into antisocial, aggressive animals, and then, irresponsibly, they leave the animals unsupervised with small children (who have also had little to no training), and the headlines ensue.

I think that there is a growing number of people who are actually jumping on the responsibility band wagon, but, it's much easier to blame an animal than yourself for ill behavior..... so, it will take a while to get the message out to a lot of people here.

2. Insurance - this is a BIG business here in the US. The insurance companies do not like to lose money. At all. I think that a lot of the problems in this department are due to lack of education (again), and the hype that our media likes to throw at us on a daily basis. Seems like all the news media, both local and national like to jump on the "horrifying headline" bandwagon.
When there is a dog incident, it wouldn't reach out and GRAB the audience if it were a pomeranian involved, as much as it does if a big bad rottweiler or pit bull is involved.... then.. the general public sees these stories, and hysteria follows.... it gets to be like a good old fashioned witch hunt sometimes.
While I have seen several good stories about these types of dogs on the national news in the past year or so, and there are actually some news reporters that do understand it's not the breed, it's the owner, breeding practices, and a lot of other ingredients that make a disaster, this is not the norm here.

The fact that we have become such a sue-happy society - when a woman can sue McDonalds for millions because she burns herself on a hot cup of coffee - well, that just about says it all. Seems like a lot of people want something for nothing.

3. Neutering and Spaying = when you have this many people, with this many pets, and they are ignorant of good breeding practices, I think this is not a bad solution. Pet overpopulation is terrible here. Again, education, or a lack thereof plays a big part in this.

4. Buying dogs and cats from petstores.
Should be outlawed here.

Pet associated business have become very big here. Big money we are spending on our beloved pets. I think, in a big way, pets have become surrogate children for a lot of folks here in the US. Not a bad thing overall, except when people ignore the fact that these are animals, and not humans, and need to be raised accordingly.

5. All in all, I suppose that if I could change some of these things here, it would be to educate people better on the subject. I love this country and the freedoms it gives me, but along with giving me freedoms, it gives everyone else the freedoms as well. Not everyone uses these privileges wisely. We are human, and we are not infallable. Educating people to become responsible for their actions and choices would be a good start, and this applies to more than just dogs......

This has been a very thought provoking topic... thanks.

Elisabeth

[Karyn]

I have spent 26 years in the legal profession and yes, we are a bunch of "sue" happy citizens. Again, it is the media who barks these huge "settlements" and everyone (lawyers and their clients) wants to get a buck the fastest, easiest way they can. Filing a suit is a sure thing, it is guranteed income as opposed to a lottery ticket. It has severely hurt the medical profession, the drug companies, the auto industry and pet owners (people have sued for cat scratches too, horse kicks - etc). Defending a lawsuit costs money and takes time, it is simpler to just pay out the claim and go on, then your insurance rates sky rocket, dogs get black listed and Your insurance policy gets cancelled. ... And what in heck do we pay insurance premiums for anyway? It is supposed to be "Risk" coverage. If there was no risk - why would I need insurance? Yep! Finland sounds good - how cold does it get there in the winter?

[Apamaria]

How cold? real cold!:D
At the moment it is -18 degrees fahrenheit (-28 celsius), so you might wanna reconsider...

Finland is good, with a small population things are obviously easier to control. There is a high level of education, all education (school, university, polytechnic) is free. Healthcare is guaranteed for all people, no insurance needed. There is no real drug or crime problem, no gangs (a big factor with the vicious rotties I believe!) , no mafia, no guns...although I'm afraid this will change in time for the worse. One can feel pretty safe walking around a big city at night. There is excellent social security for the unemployed or otherwise unfortunate. There is great equality here.
On the downside, the price we pay for societal peace is huge taxes, low pay compared with the US or even the rest of Europe. Then again, I pay taxes gladly to live in a society where I don't have to worry about getting sick or unemployed, where I can feel safe and where other people are taken care of. Yes, small is good in this case!

What I know about the US is pretty much based on discussion forums like this one (and others), newsgroups and of course, TV and the newspapers. It is a sad situation with the abused and abandoned animals, and probably impossible to control in a country as large as the US. But what I see as extremely positive thing is the fact that there are rescues and that so many people really want to help, sacrificing their time and I believe often also their peace of mind for the good of animals. That is very commendable! And I can see the need for all rescue dogs to be spayed/neutered, it is plain common sense. I have surfed the sites of some american rescue organisations and it has truly brought tears to my eyes to see how cruelly animals can be treated, and at the same time how these animals have found good homes and all has turned for the better! So, great big thanks and greetings to all of you who help the rescues!

Wow, this thread is really going all serious...but it is good I think, to get perspective!

Anna

[spidey]

I wanted to comment about a comment in the other thread about how crating is illegal in Finland. I find this kind of shocking, and I find hard to believe that this decision was one informed by research. Banning it is akin to people who claim it's "cruel" and "mean" and "putting a dog in a cage", people who say that clearly do not understand dog psychology (a far more effective means of protecting dogs from mistreatment would be to prevent anyone ignorant of dog psychology from owning a dog ;) ), and do not understand how a crate is to be used (more and more people are crating, which hopefully means more and more people are understanding it). Used properly (i.e. not as punishment, and not as a place to keep a dog 20 hours a day), crating is a natural extension of a dog's denning instinct, and is in no way cruel or unusual (if used appropriately, like anything else). It's also, as others have pointed out, a very useful thing to get a dog used to, even if you don't use it regularly, in case of illness requiring hospitalization, which happens to most pets at least once in their lifetimes. I don't think you HAVE to crate by any means (I didn't with my first dog), it's not the one and only right way to raise a puppy, but to take that option away from dog owners seems needlessly interfering and blatantly ignorant. It's one thing to protect animals from clear abuse (a good thing), it's another to remove a perfectly valid and humane device from owners out of ignorance and misconception. In case I have to say it, I'm not bashing Finland (some of my favourite racing drivers are Finnish ;) ), just this law.

[ladawn]

All aboard! It sounds like a fantastic place to live (except for the weather ;) ).

[Karyn]

I am sure they have fireplaces and central heating.

[Apamaria]

I want to learn more about crating, just so I know what I'll be talking about! So if anybody would care to tell me:
1. what size is a crate? As in how many feet square, how high etc. for a rotti
2. are the dogs shut inside when they are alone or is the door open? What about at night?
3. Is there like some average amount of time a dog would likely spend in a crate during the average 24 hours?
4. What material is used, is it see-through, or metal bars, or what?

I've been trying to find out on the net, but haven't found any explicit information. It is true that dogs are den animals, and many people find that scared dogs feel better when put in the bathroom during fireworks etc. Then again, we live in very small houses/apartments here, so it's close quarters as it is usually :)

Also, it's not so much a removed option, rather we never have crated at all. I don't think many people here ever have had it even occur to them that dogs can be kept in cages. Now, with the internet of course all kinds of practises spread around the world...
On an off note, when docking of tails was banned here (about 6-7 years ago) a whole lot of people were upset by the law. Now, these same people are very much against docking! Things change, some faster, some slower! Sometimes changing the law really does change attitudes.

[Carolina]

Well, here in Mexico is also a lil different..

Rottweilers are not that popular here in Mexico, mainly because of their price and the cost of dog food. Also, people tend to have smaller breeds due to living space. Most houses do not have a backyard, just a laundry room, so that does not leave much space for dogs, which people often believe have to live in the backyard. There sure are dogs used by macho guys, but that is not very common, it is more likely that they will have guns instead of dogs.

Even though, there is a kind of knowledge that no breed in particular is dangerous, that it all depends on the ownwer. Yes, sometimes while walking my Iby, people tend to move away, but not because of her breed, but because of her size. Medium to big dogs are kinda "respected", like I said, people is more use to medium to small dogs (labrador retrievers, poodles, chihuahuas, miniature schnauzers, and the terrier breeds mainly) so any dog bigger than that often is "respected" and given space in the sidewalk.

Animal abuse is not that common here, we do have a freak now and then, but people tend to respect pets. In here training is not that common either, there is nothing like puppy kindergarden classes, they just simply are non existent, and basic obedience is rarely tought. But lately people are seeking training for their dogs as the general pet culture is evolving, that's mainly the reason I began my "training" in dog training a couple of years ago. I am a "padawan" (student) for a profesional trainer friend of mine. I just hope to help people have better relationships with therir pets :)

Also, in Mexico, we don't use insurance for our homes as in the US. Only on cars, or businesses, but not on our homes or dogs. Some people do insurance against robbery, but they are a rare breed. I think that people here tend to think that they don't need that much insurance on property mainly because we don't have as many tornadoes, hurricanes or similar disasters in here. And if we do have them, the houses don't fall down that easily, we use block, cement, concrete and other materials in them, we not use wood. So we don't have that kind of problems with insurance companies.

Also, spaying/neutering is not commonly used. Mainly by rescue organizations or medical need. Not even a pet quality dog is spayed/neutered. And breeders, even good and reputable ones, don't have contracts as in the US regarding this issues. We do have a lot of strays, and according to my friends in rescue, from 200 to 500 dogs are put down daily, just here in Monterrey. So yes, we do have a problem with dog/cat overpopulation. On the other hand, rescue organizations are teaching the people and making the public aware of this situation. We have to keep in mind that the first rescue organization in the country was just founded less than 5 years ago, and that the laws regarding animal abuse are minimal and are kinda stuck in the medieval era. But these associations have come a long way in their 5 years of existence. There is still a lot of work to be done but they are doing whatever they can to change the situation.

About crating, well I did not knew about it until I joined this forum. Crates are usually used only for transportation. But since learning about it I do crate, and I just love it, and so does Iby. I even began talking to breeders about it, some are against crating, some think it is good but not practice it, and there are avery few that do crate. But the mayority does not know nor use the crate.

Regarding petstores, we have them, we have a lot of them, and most of them sell puppies. It is not that strictly regulated as I wish they could be. There are some very good ones with vets at all times (24 hrs), but there are also the ones that smell of dead animal when you just step in them. And, sadly there are a lot of puppies sold this way.

There are more than 85 million people here in Mexico (18+ in the capital alone), and maybe as much dogs as people. We are very slowly maturing in animal issues, and there is a long way to go before we can have decent laws. But mainly we have to focus on education, we have to educate the people, starting with the young kids. I do believe that education and public awareness is the key to a society where life is respected, all life.

JMHO

Carolina :)

[frau]

Apamaria,

Try this link:

http://www.petsmart.com/dog/shopping...F%5F%5Fcrates/

It shows pictures of a variety of crates. Some are metal grating, some plastic, all have plenty of "holes" for circulation. This company also calls them carriers.

My dogs are crated at night. I am a light sleeper and any footfall wakes me. All three would roam the house looking for food opportunities if not crated.

During the day one is loose in the house, the other two are in the Florida room, a screend-in porch with jalousies. They can also use tyhe crates whenever they like, sometimes to get away from each other. During the day the crate doors are open, at night they are closed.

Hope this helps.

Frau

[spidey]

1) what size is a crate? It varies, depending on how big the dog is. The dog should be able to turn around comfortably, stand erect comfortably, and lie stretched out in it when fully grown.

2) are the dogs shut inside? This depends on the owner. Many people shut the door when they're out of the house, or at night. Since dogs generally spend a lot of time sleeping, it doesn't usually make much difference where they sleep. I know many people only crate when they're not home, and leave the dogs out at night.

3) average time? Hard to say. I'd say that most people who crate will crate the dog when they're at work (say 8 hours or so, maybe with a lunchtime walk), and then leave the dog out when they're at home. Most dogs sleep during the day anyway. If you supply them with a toy, they'll sleep or play as the mood takes them. Obviously, a puppy cannot go this long without a walk, this is an adult dog I'm talking about.

4) Material? It varies. Most are widely-spaced thin metal bars, so the crate is very open and airy (actually, this kind of crate is often TOO open for the dog, and many people cover at least half of it to make it more cave-like and therefore comfortable for the dog. Some are big Vari-Kennels (the kind you ship dogs in), which are solid plastic with quite large ventilation holes which the dog can see out of - many dogs prefer this kind of crate, since it's dark and den-like inside. The Vari-Kennels are really expensive for the size needed for a big dog, though, and I don't know if they make one big enough to be used as an everyday crate for a big dog.

Again, I don't think crating is a must for all dogs, but it's certainly a valid and humane thing to use should you choose to do so. Many a dog has been saved from being homeless or euthanised by a crate (a dog with separation anxiety or destructive tendencies can't destroy your house if it's crated, and sometimes these things cannot be trained out). Crates are also useful for setting a dog up for success in many different goals - housebreaking is often easier with a crate, teaching a dog to settle down is often easier with a crate, many dogs will use their crate as a way to take a break from people, etc.

I find that a lot of objections to crates are based on placing human feelings on dogs, which is both unfair to the dog (one cannot train in a fair and reasonable way without some understanding of how a dog's mind works), and inaccurate. While dogs do share some similar emotions with us, they are also psychologically very different, and we need to remember that. Many wild canids spend the vast majority of their time in enclosed spaces by choice, and only leave for hunting purposes (some wild canids are nomadic, and even they will seek out enclosed spaces to sleep in when possible). We think "I wouldn't like to be shut in a cage" because there are all kinds of things we do during the day, and because being in enclosed spaces is something "bad" to many of us. We need to remember that we are not dogs, and dogs are not people. Most dogs who have been properly crate trained love their crates, view them as their own special place where they can take refuge when they want some quiet time (like going to your room and shutting the door), and will sleep and spend time in the crate of their own volition.

[Bucky's Mom]

Originally posted by Apamaria
How cold? real cold!:D
At the moment it is -18 degrees fahrenheit (-28 celsius), so you might wanna reconsider...

Anna

This sounds like what the Vikings told everyone about Iceland/Greenland - They wanted to KEEP Iceland to themselves so they TOLD everyone how crummy it was - they wanted people to go to Greenland instead (which was A LOT colder than Iceland) hence the names.

I am sorry Anna - we are ALL coming to Finland. :D :D

Good topic!

[Homerhomer]

Originally posted by spidey
I wanted to comment about a comment in the other thread about how crating is illegal in Finland.

I must have missed this, where did you read this?