Xmas - The Time to NOT Buy a Rottie or Other Puppy

[ptremaine]

Most of us know about the hideous background of petshop puppies, but some do not. Here's a thread that's going to tell those uninformed souls why a puppy from a pet shop or other retail outlet is a VERY BIG MISTAKE.

And, many of us know what happens to many puppies purchased as Xmas gifts - they end up in shelters after New Year's. While many can be adopted, a large number end up killed by shelter staff if they're not rescued by a breed group or other private rescue. So counsel your friends, family and coworkers: no puppies during Xmas season from pet shops, backyard breeders or other disreputable outlets.

But why not buy that cute little bundle of fur from a petshop?

Here's an article telling you why: <http://www.golden-retriever.com/inquire1.html>

Buyer Beware this Xmas season!

[Birdie'sMom]

That article made me sick to my stomach!

[ptremaine]

This is my opinion, so you're warned ahead of time, it's somewhat emotional in nature.

Commercial dog breeders need to be banned. No if, ands or buts about it. They need to be shut down in every single state, by tough enforcement and new laws intended to make commercial dog breeding for profit illegal. I say this from years of reading horror stories like the one I linked above. The article is dated 1995; things haven't gotten any better since then up in Pennsylvania or any other state. Many of these inhuman individuals are fully aware they're violating not only legal parameters, but ethical and moral ones as well. Treating dogs like livestock is inhuman, cruel, and inherently produces an inferior animal. Any rudimentary investigation into the practices of these horrendous people reveals a total disregard for the health, safety and welfare of the animals they produce and hold.

Frankly, to me, puppy breeders of this sort are no different than the Nazis who crowded the Jews into concentration camps only to let them suffer and die, which if that didn't happen fast enough, the evil Nazis would exterminate their captives. Amish and Mennonite and other commercial breeders are no better to animals - providing concentration camp like pens for their dogs, refusing to feed or provide water or medical care. These people are EVIL, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with religion, though it has everything to do with a complete lack of respect for life. Is that how a person claiming a religious belief system would behave?

If anyone reading this has any doubts that pet shops are supplied by the most disreputable individuals in the country, ask to see the papers of origins, the shipping documents from the puppy you're considering buying from a pet shop or puppy mill in Pennsylvania, Ohio or other state where large commercial kennels operate with impunity. Ask to see the cages where the animals are kept - and then let your common sense decide if you think a purchase from one of these amoral criminals is a wise decision.

I'd personally like to sue the living hell out of these disgusting, vile and repulsive people - to hit them where it counts - right in the wallet. Because nothing else matters to these scumbags - appeals to morality, laws specifying conditions and other bandaids will not work to curb these offensive and repellant practices.

History demonstrates that the best tools to rid or curb the landscape of human cockroaches is to use a very strong legal disinfectant - to blast them out of existence. I'd like to see several class action lawsuits against the commercial puppy concentration camp owners, so that they end up penniless, on the streets and homeless. Eventually, if sued often enough and by a large enough classes, their bank accounts would be drained of resources to fight the legal battles and they'd end up bankrupt, with their property put up for sale by a Trustee and sold to the highest bidder.

If you'd like to help put Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana puppy mills out of business, you MUST write to your local Congressperson and you must write to the elected officials at the Federal level who come from those states. It's the only way that these monsters are going to stop; that and litigation.

Pennsylvania Puppy Mills - number one in the country, a dubious distinction at best:
<http://www.allbreed.net/chows/Adopt/Adopt18.htm> -

[Sue]

What boggled my mind even more was a few weeks ago when I was at the mall we walked by the pet shop. (which I usually avoid like the plague). They were selling mutts......like a Chihuahua terrier mix, for $700.00!!! What are people thinking????

[ptremaine]

Maybe it's a coincidence, but why do all the puppymills operate in states where large swathes of the public are self-declared religious people?

Kansas, Missouri and Iowa [who is 97% white, and something like 80% declared as religious], are all notorious as puppy mill havens. Like Las Vegas harbors the Mob, these Mid-western states harbor dog criminals - the worst sort of exploiters of animals.

<http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/F...uppymills.html>

Possibly more disturbing is the realization that our nation's lawmakers know this BS goes on, and do nothing to stop it. The current Federal regulations are toothless. The AKC rarely suspends privileges and only after a long period of time has elapsed, making many more innocent canine lives suffer while some maggot wearing a human suit profits.

I've found a fairly effective way of garnering some good: going to pet stores where puppies are sold, asking to see a puppy out of a kennel and then asking the staffers [typically teenagers] some tough questions while other customers stand around listening. Unfortuntely, it only works once - as soon as the staff realizes you're there to inform listeners, they toss you out.

It's also impossible to get owners of malls to allow protests on their property and sadly, no one has the legal right to demonstrate on private property. By the time someone inside a mall is looking at puppies, it's too late. Yet it's virtually impossible to set up a successful demonstration outside a private mall housing a pet shop selling puppy mill pups because owners of malls derive a percentage of their income from each lease - and thereofre, they too are profiting from puppy sales. It's possible to set up a boycott of a certain mall that houses a pet shop who sells puppies, and notifying the mall owners the intent is to ask shoppers to boycott the entire mall and show support by withholding dollars from that mall. Eventually, like the boycott on grapes years ago proved, it will hurt the violators financially.

PT

[TrishB]

Years ago, as a teenager, one of my first jobs was at a pet store. Yes, we sold dogs. I'm not proud of it now, but at the time, I had much to learn. Those 4 1/2 years pushed me into a career in the veterinary industry which lasted another 9 years.

Here's what I learnt:

1) They come from puppy mills. No breeders would sell to us. And those that would (in which case I would now question if they were 'breeders' at all), were too expensive.

2) Puppies were purchased from between $50 each to $150. We would turn around and sell them from $500 to $1200.

3) Pups were registered with the AKC, not the CKC, even though we were in Canada. All of our pups were from the US (although Canada is now on the puppy mill band wagon too :( ).

4) Many pups that we received never made it into the windows. Some (rarely) were dead or almost dead upon arrival. Many were too sick (often) to put on display.

5) Pups were automatically put on antibiotics and meds to firm up their stools - before a vet even saw them. This is a standard practice.

6) Puppies are sold that are on medication. Buyers are NOT told about this (hence creating a sudden drop in the medication, to allow whatever they were being treated for to develop resistance to the drug).

7) These pups were not good examples of the breed(s).

8) MANY pups had congenital defects such as cherry eye, luxating patellas, hip dysplasia, etc.

9) Every time a new shipment of puppies arrived, the entire stock of pups were exposed to a new virus / disease.

10) There is no such thing as a temperament evaluation or any references to the parents of the pup. THEY HAVE NO IDEA, NO HISTORY. All they have is the puppy.

11) When they "send it back to the breeder" - the pups are destroyed - no ifs ands or buts.

12) The staff are not trained in breed knowledge (if they do know anything, they are self taught, it is not the mandate of the store to teach their staff). The staff are there to sell you a puppy - regardless if that breed or individual pup is a good match for you and your family or not.

NEVER buy a pup as a gift for someone (unless you are the parents of the child).

ALWAYS take the extra time and effort to find a solid, responsible breeder - it will save you money and heartache in the end.

You are investing in the next 10 - 15 years when you purchase a dog. Don't you think that requires you to make an informed decision? That's longer than you'll own most cars, and look at how long you'll shop for one of those! ;)

[LasVegasRN]

EXCELLENT thread and topic.

[DOGS4LIFE]

Trish so many of those items ring a bell from when I worked at a Petland back in 86. It was a high school job and as you at the time I really didn't know better. It seems though after reading your post it was more of the norm. then not.

Pet stores now remind me of a line they use in retail for managment. Turn em and burn em, they are just a short term commodity.

It's a shame good information like this isn't pushed to the local news papers for families to read prior to the holidays.

[TrishB]

If you were considering picking up a pup from a pet store, consider this situation:

You go to a "breeder" where they have the parents on site.

The father of the pups is growling, snapping, snarling, hackles up and frothing at the mouth. He's on a chain only 4 feet long inside a pen that doesn't look as if it's been cleaned out in weeks. The smell is disgusting. He has a severe underbite and his elbows are bowed out. The "breeder" suggests that you leave him alone before he gets really upset.

You go over to see the mother of the pups. She's laying in her own filth. Her teats are extended, swollen, red and chaffed. Her eyes are dull, possibly cloudy. She struggles to get up, yelps and lays back down. She has pressure sores. The "breeder" says she's a real sweetie but when you lean in to pet her, she begins to shake and snarl.

The pups are in another area. Their pen is disgusting. One of the pups is listless. All of the pups have distended bellys. There is no water bowl or food in with them. They are covered in their own excrement.

The pup they want to sell you is sitting in the corner and looks very fearful. You attempt to pick it up and it swings it's head around and softly growls. You have small children in your home.

Do you buy this puppy for $800 from these people? No? Why not?

Okay, Okay - while you're writing up that list, consider this:

The puppies in the windows of pet stores may have come from this exact situation. The father COULD have had a horrible temperament. The mother COULD have been a fear biter. They COULD have juvenile cataracts, elbow dysplasia, hip dysplasia. They COULD be loaded with paracites. And that puppy COULD have aggression issues.

Now I don't know about you, but I don't want to take a chance of an unstable dog, either mentally or structurally, in my home! I would NEVER chose a pup from either of these parents. I would want to make sure that I have taken every precaution I could to ensure a healthy, balanced, suitable temperment pup!

Without seeing where they came from, how would you know? Trust me, in the 4 1/2 years I worked with the pet store - I never met a single parent of a single puppy. I never saw where they came from nor was I ever told where they came from. So trust me, the people you are purchasing your puppy from DON'T KNOW EITHER. Congratulations on your Pet Store Puppy - you may have just purchased a time bomb. :(

[bosco]

I got my first rottie from a "backyard breeder" I was 18 and didnt know alot about rottweilers at the time.She was a wonderful dog,great temperment,no health problems and lived to be 9,she died of cancer.I am not sure what people consider "backyard breeders"
I purchased her through the newspaper,she had papers and I paid 350.00 for her. The owners of her loved the breed and had breed roties for yrs.Did their dogs have a great title? no They were probably in it for the money mostly,but then again to some extent so are reputable breeders I think.I agree animals should never be bought from a pet store,but I think the term "backyard breeder" should be used with caution.
Was it luck that she was a healthy,even tempered dog? I dunno,but I know alot of people who have bought dogs through the newspaper and had no problems.The best idea I think is to rescue,there are so many animals needing homes,why bring more of them in the world,with an uncertain future.

[Birdie'sMom]

Well, for every one that you know that has bought from a backyard breeder and had no problems I could show you two that did have a problem. I am one of them. Before I found this board I had no idea about puppy mills. I was ignorant and irresponsible and I thank God that I found this board to educate me. I got my dog from a byb and she has hip dysplasia. I'm sure her parents were never tested. It's winter, now, and it's a bad time for Birdie. Even though she gets her medicine everyday and Ascriptin when she's hurting I have to watch her struggle everytime she gets up off the floor and my heart breaks everytime I hear her cry. And she's only 11 months - it's not going to get better! I should vidoe tape one of her bad days and show it outside of the pet shops and byb's and ask if those people are willing to watch a dog that is pain and then have to feel gulity about it everyday becasue you are the one who helped these people continue with their evil business! Never again! And no - responsible breeders aren't in it for the money - there's no money in it when you do everything right!!

[bosco]

Don't get me wrong I dont think that they are all responsible,but I think that alot of them are ignorant ,however I think that we cant catagorize them "evil"because they breed their dog and sell puppies out of the newspaper.Do I think they have some hidden agenda to produce dogs with defects? I honestly dont beleive the majority of individuals who sell puppies out of the newspaper are doing so to be cruel,mean,or scam people.I think that they maybe uninformed or use bad judgement,that doesnt make them bad people. There are people who are very proud of their dogs and want to share what they deem to be a good temperment or disposition with others to enjoy,they may not be OFA or have a title but that doesnt mean they arent great dogs.Certainly a poorly bred rottweiler is alot different than a Yorkie,but it is really up to the buyer of the dog to do their homework if they chose to buy from a BYB or for that matter a so called reputable one.

[Birdie'sMom]

I agree that I am just as responsible for not doing my home work as the breeder is for being ignorant. And maybe evil is not the right word, but they have no business breeding dogs if they don't take all of the necessary measures to breed stable, healthy dogs that meet the breed standards. I don't care how "nice" they are and I don't care how "great" they think their dogs are.