Horrible Dog:Dog Attack - what would you do?

[TrishB]

There was a horrible attack here in Toronto.

A Rottweiler, whom had a bite history, ran out of an open gate. The dog attacked a tiny Pomeranian (that was on leash) and literally ripped it apart in front of the Pom's owner. :(

OBVIOUSLY, the Rottie's owner is at fault - that goes without saying.

The owner of the Rottie has been ordered to muzzle the dog when out in public.

Should the dog be ordered put to sleep? Should the owner make the choice to put the dog to sleep whether ordered to or not? Should it matter that the dog 'only' killed another dog and not a small child?

If it were your dog, what would you do?

[mmgy]

While I consider myself blessed not to have ever dealt with a problem that severe, I have known two people that had to put a dog down for "social" issues. We have owned some ornery dogs that required special handling, but just knowing that my hand might be forced has been enough impetus to make sure those dogs were secured. I don't know the answer. Is there a kennel club or humane society that can properly assess the situation? If the owner is trainable, the situation might be salvageable. If not, it might be better to let the dog go.

Mary Mac

[Bruce Lanthier]

A dog with a bite history and an owner that allowed the dog to develop a bite history, should be put to sleep. Next time it may maul a child or human. The owner was/is irresponsible and shouldn't be allowed a choice.

What would I do? I wouldn't allow my dog to get a bite history. If I can't control my dog enough to prevent it from developing a bite history I may as well kill it before it injures an innocent victim. It is the responsible thing to do.

[TrishB]

I should have answered my own questions.

If the tables were turned, and some dog (any breed) came out of no where and attacked my little 5 month old pup Parker and killed him - you had better believe that other dog isn't leaving that situation alive. There is no way I can fathom the terror that poor owner experienced, watching her little dog being tortured and mutilated like that. :( My heart goes out to her.

Now, of course, my Parker would never attack another dog. I am a proud owner and a very responsible one. I am socializing him and having him professionally trained. I have been working with him on bite inhibition. He is never left outside unattended. His parents both have temperament titles and working titles. I did my homework. I am doing everything in my power to ensure that he is an ambassador to the breed and for dogs in general.

However, if Parker ever did do something this horrible? I would put him to sleep. It isn't fair to put my community at risk or to terrorize those around me. Nor would I want a dog like that in my home.

[spidey]

Excellent questions.

I'd have to say that if it were my dog, I'd put it to sleep (then again, I very much hope no dog of mine would ever get to the stage of having a serious bite history in the first place, and if they did, odds are they wouldn't live long enough to kill another dog). Is the bite history related to humans or animals? While, as you say, it's the owner's fault, I don't think any dog with a) a serious bite history (not nipping or self defense, obviously) and b) a proven inclination to rip animals apart, is safe or belongs in a civilized society. The owner's negligence cost someone their pet (in a particularly horrible way, too), and has put yet another dent in the reputation of this great breed. There are too many nice dogs who need homes, and people shouldn't have to fear this sort of thing when walking their dogs. I'd like to see the owner prevented from having another dog at least until they've shown that they've taken steps to learn how to train and socialise a dog to make it a good citizen. Of course it makes a difference that it killed a dog and not a person, but to me, the dog's proven it's dangerous and prone to unprovoked attack, and the owner's proven they can't control and manage it safely (let alone train and socialise it properly) That's pretty much enough to indicate to me that the dog's just not safe (regardless of who's to blame for how it got that way), better to euthanise it now than wait until it does something even worse. I can't think of any reason which would justify needing a dog that untrustworthy around.

[Birdie'sMom]

How awful!:( I feel so bad for the Pom's owner - she must have felt so helpless! If it were me I would have to put the dog to sleep. I wouldn't feel safe keeping the dog and I wouldn't want to pass my problem onto anyone else! Sad situation and one I hope never to be in!:(

[KatMc]

Bad situation. I've never been in that position and pray to God I never am. Although Bella has 'issues' and as some of you know Sooner isn't dog friendly while on lead (off lead at home he's a total different dog), I have accepted these things into our home and deal with them as necessary.

I'm not about to say post haste that I would euthanize one of them, there would need to be a broader spectrum to look at. Although with a prior bite history they must have had some insight.

The other owner, I can only imagine the terror she went through watching this and knowing not to get into it (I don't know that I would have been that smart).

My sister had a Rottweiler, a good dog, well trained, but they spent a lot of time in a fenced area away from the house. This dog killed (dismembered, the whole enchilada) a cat that had the misfortune to come through the fenced area. She got rid of the dog, because she couldn't deal with the fact that it might happen again, also because she had indoor cats that the dog had been around.

She found the dog a new home with someone who would have the dog more of an indoor/outside some type of pet, with no cats of their own.

Like I said, I just pray I never am put in that situation.

Kathy

[moondog]

I'd cry all the way to the vet's office, I'd tell my dog how sorry I was to have made such a mistake while I held her as she was euthanized, and I'd plead with the poor woman whose dog was killed to allow me to pay for a puppy of her choice. And I would NEVER make that mistake again!

[Sansano]

Well Trish what do you mean by bite history? Dog or human? That really makes a difference imo. I don't think a dog should be put to sleep that is dog agressive if the owners can handle it. For those of us with bitch agressive bitches, they would understand. Left to her own vices I am quite confident my Cheyenne would attempt to kill another bitch . YET, I have a CD on her and will put a BH on her next year. I also would never let the situation as described happen nor would she go after a small dog(no threat). But if someone else let her out the front door and another big female came by she would probably attack it. Again..won't happen.

Now, of course, my Parker would never attack another dog. I am a proud owner and a very responsible one. I am socializing him and having him professionally trained. I have been working with him on bite inhibition. He is never left outside unattended. His parents both have temperament titles and working titles. I did my homework. I am doing everything in my power to ensure that he is an ambassador to the breed and for dogs in general.

Don't be so quick to say never. Your probably right since Parker is a male but there are many bitch owners who did the same as you who have bitches who are dog aggressive. Doesn't make the dog a bad dog or the owner bad. How you handle your dog once you realise this situation is the important thing.

PS. If I owned the Pom I would sue the ass off the Rottie owner.

[rottcrazed]

In my opinion, what that dog did was COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE, and if it were one of my own dogs, I'd be hard pressed to to kill my own dog with my own hands. However, I do have my temper under control, but I would seriously look at putting even my own dog down if it had the capability of killing another living thing so completely unprovoked.

The owner is responsible for that dog and it's safety and the safety of people and other animals that come near it and the owner should be punished as well as the dog. A dog like that should not be rehomed - it's too much of a risk.

I wish Canadian laws would change to make the owners of vicious/aggressive dogs answer for what their dogs did. Who's to say that this dog with a previous bite history isn't going to attack a small child next time. The risk is far too high for a dog that is a repeat offender to be given yet another chance to bite and/or kill.

Hey, we all love Rottweilers, but some of then are far beyond help and truly do not deserve it. It may not be their fault entirely if the owner was a loser anyway, but it's always the animals that pay in the end, isn't it?

Kristi

[Grendl]

I have read many threads on this Forum, and we seem to distinguish between dog aggression and aggression towards people. There is no tolerance for the latter, but there seems to be a sliding scale of limited tolerance for the former, provided the owner takes steps to prevent the aggression towards other dogs from occurring. I assume that the bite history of the aforementioned dog was towards other dogs. The owner showed a high degree of negligence in allowing the dog to get out. Should the dog be put down? I witnessed one of my dogs fatally maul my cat. This dog had shown aggression towards the cat on previous occasions, and had gotten the cat in her mouth one other time, although without injury. Should this dog have been put down? I did not. I take the blame for allowing the disaster to happen. I did not check the back yard before letting the dog out. The cat was old and could not jump over the fence as quickly as she once could. This cat normally stayed out of the backyard because she knew the dog could be there. But, for some reason, she began returning to the backyard occasionally, and I had seen her there a few days before the fatal incident. Because it was my cat and my dog, no one demanded that the dog be PTS, but is there really any difference? One beloved pet died at the "hands" of another pet. So to get back to my earlier question, "should the dog be put down?", I don't know. Should my dog have been put down, and how did my situation differ from the one described by Trish B? On a purely objective level, I'm not sure it differs much at all. Is there a difference between dog aggression and small animal aggression? I know, we call it prey drive, and some find it a desirable characteristic. I think the owner of the Pomeranian would be justified in demanding that the dog be PTS, but it would be a difficult decision for me to make.

[Homerhomer]

would all of you put your dogs to sleep if it killed a rabbit or a squirl?
If not than explain to me from the dog's point of view what is the difference between pom and another small animal like a rabbit, chicken etc etc.
I also feel terrible for the owner of the killed dog and want harsher penalties for negligance, I am just not sure that I would pts this dog based only what Trish said.
BTW, many people get dogs from good lines and socialize them, yet still have dog aggressive dogs.
And obviously this situation happens quite often, but because this was a rottweiler it somehow made the newspapers.

[Homerhomer]

Originally posted by TrishB


Now, of course, my Parker would never attack another dog.

I find this assumption quite ..... well irresponsible.

[TrishB]

I agree with Grendl in that there seems to be a sliding scale.

Dog: Human Aggression - not tolerated
Dog: Dog Aggression - depending upon situation and ability to control it; tolerable
Dog: Cat Aggression - seems although unfortunate, acceptable

Do I agree with the above? No.

Prey Drive is one thing - ripping something living to pieces is quite another. Personally, I couldn't live with my dog after having watched it maul one of my cats. My dog doesn't rate any higher in my house because he's a dog and they're cats. They're all my pets - each is just as important as the other.

Originally posted by Sansano:
Don't be so quick to say never. Your probably right since Parker is a male but there are many bitch owners who did the same as you who have bitches who are dog aggressive. Doesn't make the dog a bad dog or the owner bad. How you handle your dog once you realise this situation is the important thing.

I didn't - if you follow on to the next paragraph, I went on to say if he ever did.... ;) Homer, you may want to re-read it too.

Originally Posted by TrishB
However, if Parker ever did do something this horrible? I would put him to sleep. It isn't fair to put my community at risk or to terrorize those around me. Nor would I want a dog like that in my home.

I will never underestimate my dog. I got an up-close view of what dogs are capable of when my 45 lbs Aussie Cattle Dog took down a 60 lbs pregnant nanny goat. It was horrible. She took it down with such ease, it was as if I were watching a documentary on wolves. :( The nanny goat was unharmed (thank God). If it hadn't been? I highly doubt that I would have brought her home.

As for the bite history - I don't know what it was. Either way, the dog was a known menace in some respect.

I also want to point out that I see a clear distinction between being aggressive, and ripping another animal to pieces. Many dogs are all talk. 95% of dog fights end without injuries. Injuries are not the rule. Typically it's all about display.

A dog that has no bite inhibition, no 'off' switch and no acknowledgement to the screaming owner - is a dangerous animal. There's a big difference between talking the talk, and walking the walk.

This dog’s owner should be banned from EVER owning another dog. They're obviously not equipped, nor do they have the sense of responsibility to possess an animal.

[TrishB]

Originally posted by moondog
I'd cry all the way to the vet's office, I'd tell my dog how sorry I was to have made such a mistake while I held her as she was euthanized, and I'd plead with the poor woman whose dog was killed to allow me to pay for a puppy of her choice. And I would NEVER make that mistake again!

Very well said - it would be heartbreaking - but I would do the same.