Horrible Dog:Dog Attack - what would you do?

[LavenderRott]

First off, whoever posted that they had never met a nice Pom, I am so sorry. My mother raised them when I was a child. Yes, they barked more then Chase but they were no less obedient nor more aggressive then my rottie.

Given the facts that we were given in the original post: this dog has a bite history, it escaped from it's yard, and it ripped apart a dog that was being walked on a leash, I say that the dog should be put down.

If those facts are incorrect, then the dog should be put in the care of a behavioralist and evaluated. Further action should be taken depending on the resulting evaluation.

[Birdie'sMom]

Originally posted by spidey
[B
The vast majority of the Poms I've met have been nice. Keep in mind that many owners of small dogs don't treat them like dogs at all, I think it's less that they tend toward being nasty, and more that they've never been trained to be any different - if they weighed 100lbs., odds are they'd rate more or less the same, temperament-wise, as any other comparable breed, because they wouldn't be treated like cats or children or toys, they'd be treated like dogs. [/b]

Exactly! I agree 100% with Spidey! Are we such hypocrites that we can sit here and say "how dare you tell me that rottweilers are bad - it's the owner, not the dog!" And then we say that all Poms are mean or vicious? Give me a break! Either you believe it's the owner or you believe it's the breed - you can't pick and choose which breed you want to say is inherently bad!

[CarolineS]

Like people, I think every dog should be judged as an individual, not on stereotypical ideas of behavior.

[TrishB]

Although the question was asked to me, the answer was provided by Spidey (and very nicely I might add ;)).

Dogs that are properly trained for whatever task, when done well, are poetry in motion. I am not adverse to any breed being trained well in some discipline.

I think the distinction that needs to be made is that I believe that Rottweilers have specific drives. Because I choose to direct those drives to obedience work rather than schutzhund is a personal choice. It has nothing to do with not 'acknowledging' those drives. Those drives are what makes Parker, Parker! I wouldn't change him for the world.

Simply said, I am giving Parker every chance to channel and focus his drives to positive ends (obedience work). If that, to you, means that I'm trying to make him into something he's not ... well, that's your opinion that I just happen to disagree with.

In this case of this dog - that attacked and killed the Pomeranian. The owner is at fault for not providing a fail-safe environment for his dog not to hurt another. I have no idea if the dog has had proper training or if they've socialized the dog. Either way, the dog has crossed a line and in a responsible society, must be dealt with.

P.S. My grandmother had a Pomeranian that was the light of her life to her last days. He was sweet, loving and provided unlimited enjoyment for her. I love him and the breed for that.

[TrishB]

This is the only article I could find:

http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Stor...7-019/page.asp

It has a picture of what seems like a purebred Rottie - no mention of a cross, bite history - nothing. I have no idea of what's correct any more. :(

[Burnsway]

Trish in a picture like that A Rottweiler/lab mix can look very purebred. My own vet describes Psyche in her documents as a Rottweiler not a Lab. Last year I had to go back up to the vets and ask her to change the Rabies registration papers to A rottweiler/lab mix because she had her down as a purebred Rottweiler. I wanted her registered as a mix because that is what she is.

Some Rottweiler mixes look very very Purebred to a novices eyes. This is why I can not emphasize enough to the members who have mixes if your dog even looks remotely Rottweiler in societies and novices eyes they are Rottweilers and that gives you even more responsibility to have a well trained and behaved dog. Weather purebred owners want to stomach it or not these Mutts do contribute largely to the reputation of the breed. Sad but true.

This story is very sad but I lean on the side that it is in no way the dogs fault for being a dog. The owner should have been more careful and their mistake on their Rottweiler Lab mixes situation is going to hurt the repuatation even more...:(

[TrishB]

Originally posted by Burnsway
Trish in a picture like that A Rottweiler/lab mix can look very purebred.

I agree, which is why I wrote 'seems like'. It's a dark picture anyway, there's no way to tell. The video link does say that there were 2 dogs. The older one is the one accused of the attack which at least from the video, looks like a purebred. The younger one looks like it could be a cross.

The guy 'caring' for the dogs says he's afraid of the dogs and that they're not his. But there's a snipet of him grabbing the dog which was running off leash, hovering over the cowering dog and screaming at it. The dogs have apparently been off leash many times and have run up to small children. Apparently this community has been harrassed by these dogs running loose for some time.

There was no mention of the bite history in this video or article. Although there was a reference that the dog was running loose without a muzzle which would 'suggest' that maybe it should have had one. But that's just an impression.

I feel so horrible for this woman. :(

[Homerhomer]

Originally posted by Burnsway


Some Rottweiler mixes look very very Purebred to a novices eyes.

http://www.thedogplace.com/library/articles156.htm

[Burnsway]

Yes I have read that before. It is a very good article.

[Muckdogs]

I haven't read all the posts on this thread, so am only responding to the OP. IMHO, I wouldn't do anything to the dog. It is clearly the owner's fault, due to negligence. There can never be a fail safe retention for dogs, so all we can do is the best we can do. Dogs get out all of the time, regardless of precautions. To say that "my dog can never get out" is farcical. It is sad that the pom was killed and I'm sure that the poms owner was traumatized. But, punishing the dog is not the answer. One of two things happened. Either the Rott was a dog aggressive dog, which is common and precautions must be taken. Or, the Rott viewed the pom as a prey item, drive kicked in and the Rott satisfied its drive by grabbing the pom, shaking it until it stopped moving and dropped it. Either way, the Rott was doign what nature programmed it to do. Now, if the Rott had finished with the pom and then turned on the owner, that is a different story. But I didn't see that anywhere in the OP. For now, I say leave the Rott alone and make better efforts to contain it. I honestly can't say that my dog would have done any different, particularly if the pom gave the slightest sign of defense, fight or flight.

[ptremaine]

Amen, Muckdogs. I said pretty much the same thing and many responses were just more whining about the same thing, ignoring the simple issue of prey drive and dog on dog aggression being a Rottie trait at times.

In fact, for those who haven't read the actual AKC standard in a while, let me quote it for you all:

"......an intelligent dog of extreme hardness and adaptability with a strong willingness to work, making him especially suited as a companion, guardian and general all-purpose dog..... An aloof or reserved dog should not be penalized, as this reflects the accepted character of the breed. An aggressive or belligerent attitude towards other dogs should not be faulted...A dog that in the opinion of the judge attacks any person in the ring shall be disqualified."

Notice that there's a distinction between human aggression and dog aggression.

In fact, a dog isn't even faulted for being "AGGRESSIVE OR BELLIGERENT" in the AKC breed ring! Gee, what a surprise.

Rotties are often dog aggressive, not merely due to poor owner handling, but due to genetics. Sure we can try to curb the aggression, but it's there as a "standard feature" of the breed.
Containment is often not a failsafe thing and anyone who claims othewise hasn't owned dogs long enough.

Funny, I don't see the word 'sweet' anywhere in that standard.

[Sansano]

Good job Ptremaine and Muckdogs. I was starting to feel bad about my girl being bitch aggressive.;)
Someday folks will realise what the Rottweiler is and what it is not. It can be a hard dog that can be dog aressive despite ALL the training in the world. It is NOT a dog that is a big teddy bear who wouldn't hurt a fly. It's obviouos that dog aggression can be part of a Rotties make up without it being just a 'few quirky rotties' like the one I own.
Lot's of labs and Goldens out there for those who don't want a Rottweiler. :)

[Bruce Lanthier]

It's fine to be a responsible owner with a dog aggressive, or high prey, dog and but it is a whole different story if the owner is irresponsible. I don't doubt for a second that Mike's bitch aggressive dog will never have an incident like the one described because he is a responsible owner. The owner of the dog in question has let his dog develop a bite history and on top of that left town and left his aggressive dog with an idiot that is now afraid of the dog. Who will make sure this dog doesn't destroy another old lady's dog? Certainly not the owner. What if a child were walking a little dog and this dog aggressive comes out and starts destroying the little dog and the child reaches in to save the little dog? Like I said before: If the dog can be rehomed with a responsible owner fine, if not it should be killed. Why? Because the dog's current owner has proven himself to be totally irresponsible and this would be another incident waiting to happen. Would you want this dog and its current owner living next door to you? Call it cold-hearted but I would rather see this dog killed than continue to create a bad impression for our breed. EVERYONE (except dog people) in that town now thinks rottweilers are vicious dog killers. GOOD dogs are killed every day, why on earth shouldn't this dog be killed?

[Sansano]

Originally posted by Bruce Lanthier
It's fine to be a responsible owner with a dog aggressive, or high prey, dog and but it is a whole different story if the owner is irresponsible. . The owner of the dog in question has let his dog develop a bite history and on top of that left town and left his aggressive dog with an idiot that is now afraid of the dog

Good point Bruce. You have to know your dogs and deal with them accordingly. I really trust my brother a lot BUT I don't leave Cheyenne in is his care when I lgo on vacation any longer. I decided to kennel her where I know she will be totally safe(maybe not totally happy!) and so will other dogs. There never was an incident I just find I only trust myself with her. On the other hand, now that Baggio is fixed he can be left with folks as I trust him as a dog and I don't have to worry about him impregnating a bitch if he did somehow get out while under someone elses care.

[moondog]

Originally posted by ptremaine
Containment is often not a failsafe thing and anyone who claims othewise hasn't owned dogs long enough.

If containment is "often not a failsafe thing", then I say whoever believes that hasn't owned dogs long enough. How often do your dogs get out?