Horrible Dog:Dog Attack - what would you do? - Page 3

Rottnlove · #31 12-02-2002, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sansano
Simply not true. I wish it was that easy. Some bitches MUST be seperated at ALL times regardless of training and socializing. We need to understand that fact or else a dog may get seriously hurt. I am happy it works out perfectly for your friend but don't think that it proves that it can work out for everybody like that.

Yeah, I suppose if the dog intoduced to the household was a total nutcase, it probably wouldn't work. Her Chow Chows were, well, shall we just say, less than trained when she rescued them. Now they are both wonderful dogs because of her training. She knows what she's doing and has probably had her moments, I'm sure it wasn't all peaceful in the beginning. But after all her training, all four dogs get along quite well. I brough over Xena and it went very well. :) This friend is a professional dog trainer and will be training Xena someday. :)

So, I agree with you. I believe you're right that SOME bitches must be separated at ALL times. But there are those that are well bred and recieve the proper training and are just fine with other bitches. Thanks for pointing that out! :)

Carol Burke · #32 12-02-2002, 03:37 PM

Rottweilers have prey drive as a trait or characteristic, some more than others. If we are to have this breed it is our responsibility to guide, control and manage any traits that are unacceptable in society. If we cannot accept and do this then we need either a different breed of dog or no dog at all.

To answer the original question, the dog would have to be euthanized because the owner obviously has allowed this dog to become a menace and has no intention of controlling the dog. This is not fair, but it is the way life is.

I once had a Rottweiler who, through poor breeding, was a loose cannon. He was dog aggressive and could be people aggressive. He had to be under control 100% of the time. Never got loose, never bit a person(not because he didn't try) and made life extremely stressfull. Got along ok with my other dogs until he decided to try and kill one that he had played with the day before. I was the only one home and could not seperate them. I finally got a gun from the house and shot the aggressor. That did not kill him but it stopped the aggression. I had to take both dogs to the emergency vet. And I made the decision that this was not going to happen again and the aggressor was euthanized while held in my arms and told he was loved. The whole point of this story, I guess, is this dog was put into this world and shouldn't have been. It is not as though he had no redeeming qualities, he was funny, affectionate, pretty obedient and I loved this dog. I raised him from eight weeks and thought I could manage him through training, neutering, behavior modification, etc. Some dogs are crazy and this was one. In the wrong hands he could have killed a child.

It is our responsibility to make sure dogs that are aggressive and not controlled are humanely put to sleep.

Sansano · #33 12-02-2002, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rottnlove
Yeah, I suppose if the dog intoduced to the household was a total nutcase, it probably wouldn't work.

You don't seem to get it. It has nothing to do with the dog being a total nutcase or how great you train them. Some bitches in our breed especially don't accept other bitches. Not a big deal when properly handled. My dog is trained and has the titles to back it up BUT she would and has tried to kill another bitch in certain situations.

Rottnlove · #34 12-02-2002, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sansano
You don't seem to get it. It has nothing to do with the dog being a total nutcase or how great you train them. Some bitches in our breed especially don't accept other bitches. Not a big deal when properly handled. My dog is trained and has the titles to back it up BUT she would and has tried to kill another bitch in certain situations.

Ok, I agree again! Some bitches don't accept other bitches. The one thing I admitt to not understanding fully is why? I also wonder how she got all 4 of her bitches to live together peacefully, as it wasn't that way in the beginning! It took tons of work. It didn't happen over night. She made them get along, and I don't know how she did this, but she told me some things she did in the beggining and it must have worked. If it wasn't for her training, those bitches would have fought if not killed one another. Now they play together and don't need to be confined to their own seperate rooms. I'm guessing she's there to supervise when all 4 are out playing together, but it's incredible how well these dogs get along.

I guess my point is that with a lot of patience and great training you can sometimes get bitches to live together peacefully.

But the part about meeting strange bitches is a different topic than what I was referring to. Who's to say her 4 bitches would accept a strange dog right off the bat? I know they did well with my female in her house, but maybe not with every strange bitch. I did get it, I think you just missed my point. ;)

Staggers · #35 12-02-2002, 04:20 PM

My last Rottweiler was always very dog aggressive, he was a rescue & came to me that way. He could also be people aggressive if left to his own devices & was outside alone. He once killed a puppy than had the misfortune to wander into our yard. It was a horrible thing however, I did not put him to sleep. I think the diffrence here being responsible ownership. I felt it was my fault because the puppy "could" get into my yard, my dog could not get out. I fixed the fence much better so no other small animal would suffer the same fate. I am now much more aware & have learned alot about being a responsible Rottweiler owner. The dog I have now I have had since puppyhood & is as socialized as he possibly can be, he is great with other dogs. Although he is a Rottweiler & has a great Rottweiler temperment & has never to this point been agressive toward other animals, I would NOT think for a minute that he wouldn't be if that is what he desired at any time. It is totally up to me to control every situation he is put in.
We are the owners of Rottweilers, they are by their very nature a very aggressive breed, generally speaking. We all know that we have to take certain measures to keep our dogs safe & society safe. If we are not up to this task we should not own a Rottweiler. I think if it were me in this situation I would PTS this particular dog. Hard as that would be.

Patricia

KatMc · #36 12-02-2002, 04:26 PM

I think Carol said it and summarizes most of our feelings on this. We all seem to agree but are saying it differently.

Quote:

I raised him from eight weeks and thought I could manage him through training, neutering, behavior modification, etc. Some dogs are crazy and this was one. In the wrong hands he could have killed a child.

Quote:

It is our responsibility to make sure dogs that are aggressive and not controlled are humanely put to sleep.

We all know someone who had multiple bitches in their house, or they themselves have had (I did, but only one Rottie and she was the alpha) and they got along. From what we are saying if they didn't we would control it or remove the problem some how.

We also acknowledge our dog aggresive dogs and we accept that and make the effort to control them.

This owner obviously should never have owned a Rottweiler, or for that matter probably any dog.

Kathy

Sansano · #37 12-02-2002, 04:52 PM

Kat, you are right but I just think we need to seperate people and dog aggression. Dog aggression is fairly common in our breed and can be handled. And is not always through a lack of training or socializing nor is every dog aggressive dog a 'nutcase' or 'crazy'.

kimshiely · #38 12-02-2002, 06:08 PM

This is a good post. I rescued my 4 year old, Diva, about 9 months ago. She has a high prey drive with squirrels, dogs and cats. She cannot be around other animals....period. Lots of one on one with a trainer is helping with this but she will never be a dog park dog. Never. I had one incident while we were out walking on leash where a neighbor had her small poodle out on her front yard OFF leash. Her poodle came running over and before I knew it, my Diva had this poodle in her mouth and wouldn't let go. Had I not interferred, I'm sure she could have killed the poodle. It ended with the poodle having a broken leg and a puncture wound on the leg. I felt absolutely awful for the poodle, but no remorse to the neighbor who had her dog off leash. Should I put my dog down? God I would hope not.

This rotty is the friendliest dog EVER. Never growled or lunged or anything but a princess with people. She just does not like animals, hence she is ALWAYS on leash and on our 3 walks a day we do our best to avoid them. Should she be punished by being put to death for not being properly socialized as a puppy? Am I an irresonponsible owner?

moondog · #39 12-02-2002, 06:33 PM

Hi kimshiely,

We are talking about a dog who left his property, unaccompanied and unleashed. A dog whose owners had been mandated to keep muzzled when off their property. A dog with a bite history already. A LOOSE dog that attacked and killed a LEASHED dog. Not your situation at all.

Had the owner's of this dog been conscientious, no matter how dog or animal aggressive he was, it simply would not have happened. This is NOT ABOUT THE DOG nearly so much as IT IS ABOUT THE OWNER.

Carina43 · #40 12-02-2002, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kimshiely

This rotty is the friendliest dog EVER. Never growled or lunged or anything but a princess with people. She just does not like animals, hence she is ALWAYS on leash and on our 3 walks a day we do our best to avoid them. Should she be punished by being put to death for not being properly socialized as a puppy? Am I an irresonponsible owner?

You don't sound at all irresponsible to me! Now if you just left your dog outside all the time and didn't bother to make sure there was secure fencing or gates...that would be another story.

TrishB · #41 12-02-2002, 08:28 PM

I'm willing to accept that our breed requires more attention than most in regards to possible aggression. They are very protective and have a high prey drive in comparison to other breeds.

I will not however accept that I can't have an impact on it. I will direct any protectiveness to a positive end. I will utilize any prey drive to an advantage. It is those same drives, that could turn badly in the wrong hands, that make him the wonderful pup he is!

Is Parker, at 5 months, a threat to anyone? Unless you can be knocked over by an exhuberant puppy greeting, no I guess not. Does that mean that I can leave him unattended? NO!

Parker hasn't 'failed' due to one simple reason. I don't allow him into situations where he might fail. Nor will I ever allow him to. He will not be allowed off leash unless it's a controlled situation. He will not be encouraged to bark, lunge, snap, jump up or mouth.

He will be encouraged to do the right thing and be set on that path. He will continue to be socialized throughout his life. His training will never end. I will not expect anything less than the best of him and because of his wonderful nature - I'm sure that he will always strive to give it to me.

I love our wonderful breed. It's horrible that such a sweet, driven to please dog attracts such irresponsible owners. I will not however ever accept that 'this is just the way the breed is'. Sure, in some cases, very few, it's true. But I've heard of WAY too many, irresponsible, ego maniacs use that same line when their dogs are lunging and frothing at the mouths.

You'd be surprised at what your dogs will do for you, if you only ask it of them. ;) Expect more and often, due to their intelligence, dedication, focus on pleasing you, they'll give it to you!

Footnote: No, I don't have unrealistic expectations. No, I don't have pipe dreams for my dog. No, I don't want to turn my dog into another breed. No, I don't want him to be something that his breed is not.

I just wanted to make that clear - so I wasn't accused of something else I didn't say....

;)

Sansano · #42 12-02-2002, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TrishB

You'd be surprised at what your dogs will do for you, if you only ask it of them. ;) Expect more and often, due to their intelligence, dedication, focus on pleasing you, they'll give it to you!

I will not however ever accept that 'this is just the way the breed is'. Sure, in some cases, very few, it's true. But I've heard of WAY too many, irresponsible, ego maniacs use that same line when their dogs are lunging and frothing at the mouths.

Well I guess I am just a bad owner.

Whatever. There are owners on this board who have a multitude of titles and train dogs for a living YET they have dog aggressive dogs. Maybe you could give them a lesson in how to train? While, you are at it..give me one too. I obviously don't know how to ask it of my dog.

My girl would not lunge and froth at the mouth. She tolerates other bitches in my presence because quite frankly she knows what would happen if she didn't. And her case is not that rare as you think. Many dog aggressive(mostly bitch) Rotties out there. We don't need you lecturing to us how its all about the training. I spend an inordinate amount of time training my dogs so please don't insult me.

patton_jr · #43 12-02-2002, 09:38 PM

After reading alot of what now seems to be who trains better than who, I forgot what the otiginal post was about.

Sansano- Could you edit your profile and remove NONE from the Webpage portion of your profile? Also, I wanted to know what was the situation that your bitch tried to kill another and what was the outcome?

Quote:

My dog is trained and has the titles to back it up BUT she would and has tried to kill another bitch in certain situations.

I myself am about to become a proud owner of a rottweiler bitch. I thought that bitches were calmer than males, and easier to train. Hence the reason for my first rottweiler being a bitch. I'm sure I'll do all I can to insure that my girl never gets to the point that she attacks another dog on sight. Ah, back to the original question! Hummm...Like I just said, I would hope that all my love, care, attention, and training, prevents me from ever having to worry about my girl flying off the handle and killing another dog. If it were me, that this happened to, the dog would be point down. Yeah, I should also be put down! This kind of stuff should never have happened!

:(