Horrible Dog:Dog Attack - what would you do?

[moondog]

Once a problem leaves the premises and hits the street, it leaves the domain of a personal problem and becomes the problem of society at large. Of course the dog doesn't make that distinction, that's what responsible ownership is all about. When the behavior becomes an issue of public safety for whatever reason, unfortunately it is the dog who has to pay the price because the law does not allow us to euthanize the owner.

[Sansano]

Originally posted by TrishB

Now, of course, my Parker would never attack another dog.

Am I missing something? This sounds like never to me.

[Carina43]

I'll admit to being guilty of making a distinction between tolerating a dog killing a wild animal like a squirrel, duck, or possum, and one of my dogs theoretically killing someone's pet. When Phoebe was young, she killed at least one squirrel in my yard. A month ago my rescue Dutch killed a possum while on a 20' lead with me at the other end. These things I regard as "natural" in the sense that squirrels and possums are prey animals in the wild, and nobody had to go through the anguish of seeing their own pet killed.

I honestly don't know what I'd do - Phoebe has always been very good with small dogs, at least in my house (I used to do fostering & had quite a few small dogs, and puppies, staying with me.) I consider myself a very responsible dog owner - yet unlike Trish would NEVER say "my dog would not attack another dog." I know perfectly well that most dogs will attack another dog under the right - or wrong - set of circumstances. I am quite sure Dutch would kill a small dog as efficiently as he killed that possum. I take precautions to the point of paranoia to ensure that never, ever happens.

If it did - I don't know. Probably with a heavy heart, I would euthanize the dog. If nothing else, I would do that as a way of bringing some sort of closure to the owner...that would be just awful, to be responsible for one's own dog doing that.

Just as an aside - we accept the killing of small animals by cats and earth dog/terrier types, in fact there are working terriers still utilised as rat catchers. Certain herding/guardian breeds like Anatolians can and do kill coyotes & foxes - they are trained to do this. I don't think I could "hate" a dog - or even be angry with it - if it killed someone's pet. Extremely guilty, if I allowed it to happen - angry with myself, and very very sad.

I'm sort of thinking out loud here so I hope what I said makes sense. I've been thinking about this since Dutch got the possum and I realised how easily he would do the same thing to another dog.

[Sansano]

Originally posted by TrishB

Typically it's all about display.

A dog that has no bite inhibition, no 'off' switch and no acknowledgement to the screaming owner - is a dangerous animal. There's a big difference between talking the talk, and walking the walk.

Well, I have to say that most Rottie bitch fights are NOT about display. I've seen them with my own eyes. And in case you don't know...a screaming owner doesn't do anything but make the situation worse and hardly any dog will acknoledge the screaming ownere at this time. There is no off switch in a real dog fight. This isn't shutzhund. This had nothing to do with training or socializing. Look, if someone would be so quick to put their dog to sleep if he somehow showed signs of dog agression then maybe an alternative breed would be in order.

[TrishB]

There is no sense in only reading one sentence of a post. You're taking it out of context. I wrote that as in of course my dog would never.... :p

Please don't insert words into my mouth when you know what the intention was. It's just silly and it detracts from the actual topic.

Of course that possibility is ALWAYS there, with EVERY animal. I don't believe I need to justify my comments, which were only made to make a point, any further.

I would hope that my dog never would act like this. I am doing everything in my power to ensure that it won't. If it did, I'd take full responsibility for it.

Period.

Originally posted by Sansano:
...if you would be so quick to put your dog to sleep if he somehow showed signs of dog agression then maybe an anternative breed would be in order.

If that is what you think I said - you've completely missed the point and all of the rest of my comments. And with the narrow, self-centered stand that you've taken, I might recommend the same to you. You're making it sound as if you'd put your dogs lives over the safety of others. :(

[Sansano]

Originally posted by Carina43

Extremely guilty, if I allowed it to happen - angry with myself, and very very sad.

My thoughts exactly.

[Carina43]

Originally posted by TrishB
I would hope that my dog never would act like this. I am doing everything in my power to ensure that it won't. If it did, I'd take full responsibility for it.

Period.

:(

Absolutely! My vet told me once that the people who's dogs were MOST likely to bite him are they same ones who always say "Oh, my Fluffy won't bite..."
I think it's wiser to acknowlege that every dog can bite if afraid, or provoked enough - some more likely than others - and to be very aware of that to ensure it never happens.

[TrishB]

Originally posted by Carina43
Absolutely! My vet told me once that the people who's dogs were MOST likely to bite him are they same ones who always say "Oh, my Fluffy won't bite..."
I think it's wiser to acknowlege that every dog can bite if afraid, or provoked enough - some more likely than others - and to be very aware of that to ensure it never happens.

Thank you Carina for reading what I intended (and thought I had quite clearly btw) to write and convey. ;)

[Bruce Lanthier]

I thought we were talking about an UNSECURE dog with a bite history, not a bitch aggresive rottweiler. Lets be real for a minute. We're not talking about cats killing mice (pests, vermin) or a dog running in the woods and killing a squirrel. We're talking about a loose dog in the neighborhood that will, obviously, kill another dog on sight. The bite history is because it has a history of biting, not growling, challenging, etc. but biting. This sounds like a dog that would attack ANY other animal and perhaps children and adults. Now you can talk about bitch aggressive dogs all day but I doubt if the Rottweiler stopped for even a second to determine if the pomeranian was a bitch or a dog. I don't think it would have mattered.

Mike, would your bitch aggressive dog run out of your yard and kill a pomerainian walking on a leash? If so, I imagine you take every precaution to prevent that. I'm willing to bet this owner doesn't take near the precautions that you (and me with my dog) take, hence the bite history. If a dog is a danger to the community it should be removed, rehomed in an appropriate environment or killed. This dog is obviously a danger. Would any of you want it living next door? On your street? In your neighborhood? I wouldn't. Besides I doubt that this dog is a good rescue candidate so that really only leaves one option.

[Rottnlove]

This is such a sad situation. I feel for the owner of that Pom. I use to have a Pom, and she was the best little dog. Loved her tons. I can't imagine going through what this lady just did. how sad. :(

I want to point out that we should be easier on Trish. We're taking things a bit too far, being too critical, as she only wants to do everything right with Parker. She's doing a fantastic job!! I'm sure Parker is a VERY well behaved dog and she's just proud of that fact. She is doing all the right things! :) I wish there were more dog owners around like her. Trish, keep up the great work!

As for this situation, I would have to blame myself for letting the dog get out in the first place. I would also take full responsibility for all that happened. I would do what it took to show her I was so sorry. But nothing could replace her dog. Not even a new dog. I would definitely offer to buy her another dog of her choice, but there is nothing that could bring back that pomeranian. I would also look into training. I would bet that dog had limited training and socialization! I would do all I could to improve that dogs behaviour. A dog that attacks so easily is a dog to be concerned about! :(

I know that my friends bitches do not act like that. They have been heavily socialized and trained. The two bitches live in the same household together and are 5 years apart in age. In fact, she lives with 4 dogs total and in peace. It can be done. It just takes the right training. She has 2 chow chows and 2 rottweilers! All have been introduced at different ages. I believe the Chow Chows are rescues. All get along quite well!

What happened to that dog was uncalled for!!!

I also agree 100% with Bruce's post.

[Sansano]

Originally posted by Bruce Lanthier
I thought we were talking about an UNSECURE dog with a bite history, not a bitch aggresive rottweiler. Lets be real for a minute. We're not talking about cats killing mice (pests, vermin) or a dog running in the woods and killing a squirrel. We're talking about a loose dog in the neighborhood that will, obviously, kill another dog on sight. The bite history is because it has a history of biting, not growling, challenging, etc. but biting. This sounds like a dog that would attack ANY other animal and perhaps children and adults. Now you can talk about bitch aggressive dogs all day but I doubt if the Rottweiler stopped for even a second to determine if the pomeranian was a bitch or a dog. I don't think it would have mattered.

Mike, would your bitch aggressive dog run out of your yard and kill a pomerainian walking on a leash? If so, I imagine you take every precaution to prevent that. I'm willing to bet this owner doesn't take near the precautions that you (and me with my dog) take, hence the bite history. If a dog is a danger to the community it should be removed, rehomed in an appropriate environment or killed. This dog is obviously a danger. Would any of you want it living next door? On your street? In your neighborhood? I wouldn't. Besides I doubt that this dog is a good rescue candidate so that really only leaves one option.

Good post, there is a difference between prey drive and bitch or dog aggression. And a loose dog that kills should face the consequences. My girl would not kill any small animal. She would however run out of the yard if I was not present to go after another large bitch that she felt was a threat in any way. Because of this she is not just 'put outside' when she has to go. I also double check the gate EVERY time I let her outside. I have regular 4 foot fences and I know she can clear them so until I get a 6 foot non climb-able one, I am watching her. She does and would listen to me pre-engagement with another dog but if she engaged I would need to pull her off by her feet as I have done before with a freind of mines bitch that cheyenne got into with. She is a wonderful companion and she made me so proud during her CD trials. Her last trial she sat between a large shepard bitch and a large lab bitch. She didn't even look at them. I also know many well bred, well-trained, well-socialised Rotties that have the same type of aggression as Cheyenne(a rescue). It's an issue we as Rottweiler owners have to deal with BUT you made a good point in distinguishing between the two situations. :)

[Homerhomer]

Originally posted by Bruce Lanthier
Lets be real for a minute. We're not talking about cats killing mice (pests, vermin) or a dog running in the woods and killing a squirrel. We're talking about a loose dog in the neighborhood that will, obviously, kill another dog on sight.

Just to clarify I asked about what would YOU do with YOUR dog if it killed a squirrel or another small animal, I wasn't talking about the dog that killed the pom or this particular situation.

[Sansano]

Originally posted by Rottnlove
!

As for this situation, I would have to blame myself for letting the dog get out in the first place. I would also take full responsibility for all that happened.

Yep..owners fault 100%.

[Sansano]

Originally posted by Rottnlove
!



I know that my friends bitches do not act like that. They have been heavily socialized and trained. The two bitches live in the same household together and are 5 years apart in age. In fact, she lives with 4 dogs total and in peace. It can be done.

Simply not true. I wish it was that easy. Some bitches MUST be seperated at ALL times regardless of training and socializing. We need to understand that fact or else a dog may get seriously hurt. I am happy it works out perfectly for your friend but don't think that it proves that it can work out for everybody like that.

[godfreyc]

A squirrel or oppossum is one thing, and I can even see where they may mistake a roaming cat for a small prey animal, but if any of my dogs left my yard(first unacceptable scenario) to kill a small dog on a leash(COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE regardless of prey drive, dog aggression whatever the reason) they would make a quick trip to my vet for a painless end. This is not ok period.