Dateline story

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by WorkinDogz:
... What are YOU doing to shed positive light on the breed?? Going to obedience classes? Great. A bizillion Goldens go through those same classes yet manage to stay OFF the "Deadlist Breed" list...

...When the average citizen of this country can turn on the television and view and hear about the CARNAGE left behind from THIS BREED...anyone who questions whether ANY ROTTWEILER can be a good family pet DOES INDEED have something solid behind the question!! That's the time to point out WHY a dog was left to his own devices to MURDER a child! IRRESPONSIBLE OWNERSHIP REGARDLESS OF BREED OFFENDING...

I couldn't have said it better myself :D

[rlogle]

I'm quiet sure you all are right rottie's have killed children, and adults. However, the Dateline NBC story stated the fact about pit's and rotties killing more people than any other dogs and never once said another word about a rottie. They went into great detail about the Presa, and the Pit Bull but never mentioned the rottie again. They talked about the other breeds as a whole, except the rottie. If you saw the story, which, yes, was very well done, and do not think that rottie's were given the short end of the stick then I can't understand why. They basically said the rottweiler is a killing machine and nothing else. The story as a whole talked about breeding and training, yes but never mentioned the rottie again. I believe the general public should know that some, not all, of our breed has and will kill. NOT just that rottweiler's are killers. I'm sure this post will ruffle some feathers just as the one I posted that started this did.

[WorkinDogz]

I was under the impression that the story was about dangerous DOGS?? Dogs that inflict serious and sometimes fatal harm to their victims.

It wasn't a "Rottie issue" nor was it a Rottie Feature. The Rottweiler being mentioned might just have something to do with it STATISTICALLY PROVEN TO BE the single most deadly breed.

This breeds vindication will come from responsible ownership and keeping the breed OUT of the headlines....not by Diane Sawyer saying so in a 2 minute Rottie-breed brief.

You can bet I'll be watching the replay of Dateline tomorrow night.

No feathers to ruffle rlogle; I'm not a chicken ;) LOL

[Verbal]

Originally posted by rlogle:
I believe the general public should know that some, not all, of our breed has and will kill. NOT just that rottweiler's are killers. I'm sure this post will ruffle some feathers just as the one I posted that started this did.

I did not see the news story in question, but I feel that shows rarely put enough emphasis on the fact that ANY dog can kill... Rottweiler, Pit Bull, Presa, Pomeranian or Golden Retriever.

I've known many people, especially children, injured by dogs because the dog's owner simply didn't acknowledge that dogs can and will bite or attack when under stress. Every dog has a different stressor -- but every dog has one.

To deny this simple fact is to set yourself up for failure. I wish more shows would publicize this, instead of emphasizing the dangerous potential of one or two breeds.

Rottweilers and Pit Bulls are making headlines now because they are the most commonly neglected dogs -- the two breeds combined (including mixes) make up, on average, about 60-80% of any given urban shelter's population.

Substitute any random two breeds of dogs of similar size, and you'd see the same results if not worse.

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by Verbal:
I did not see the news story in question, but I feel that shows rarely put enough emphasis on the fact that ANY dog can kill... Rottweiler, Pit Bull, Presa, Pomeranian or Golden Retriever...

Well, let us see for a moment. What are the chances of death, or causing major injuries, if pitbull or a Rottweiler or a Presa Canario attacks a child, when compare to the same attack by a Pomeranian or Golden Retriever?... Uuuuuumh, I think the most powerful dogs have a higher probability to inflict more severe damage, possibly fatal, than what a lap dog or a sweet retriever can do.

The truth remains that a powerful dog in the hands of an irresponsible person can become dangerous or even a lethal weapon.

Yes, you are right that, counting the number of incidents, the smaller breeds bite more people than large breeds, however, powerful breeds have killed humans, for a very simple reason: they have a mighty strength and aggression superior to most breeds. One has to know more in-depth about the potential and capabilities of the different dog breeds and what true canine aggression is all about ;)

When was the last time you heard that a Pomeranian or a Golden Retriever killed someone?... I thought so.

[rlogle]

Last week a cocker spaniel killed a child in Utah, saw it on headline news. Popped the carotid artery. Kid bled out. Dog was a therapy dog, that had lived with the family for over seven years. I could see a retriever killing a human before I could a cocker spaniel. But it happended. You are right German, that the more powerful the dog the greater the chance for injury and/or death, however any dog can kill, for one reason or another.

[Verbal]

Originally posted by German Vanegas:
Well, let us see for a moment. What are the chances of death, or causing major injuries, if pitbull or a Rottweiler or a Presa Canario attacks a child, when compare to the same attack by a Pomeranian or Golden Retriever?... Uuuuuumh, I think the most powerful dogs have a higher probability to inflict more severe damage, possibly fatal, than what a lap dog or a sweet retriever can do.

When was the last time you heard that a Pomeranian or a Golden Retriever killed someone?... I thought so.

I work with local animal control. I see some UGLY bite cases from "sweet" retrievers. I agree that small dogs have to work harder to inflict the same degree of damage a larger breed dog could do in a heartbeat.

A woman recently brought her 6 year old, neutered male golden retriever into the shelter... it had grabbed her grandchild by the nape of the neck, shaken the toddler, and pinned her. Luckily the mother was present and able to pull the dog off...

The child had multiple lacerations on neck and scalp and the hospital refused to release the toddler back to the family until the dog was out of the home.

Upon talking to this woman, I learned that the dog would bite, inflicting puncture wounds, if you tried to correct it, or tried to move it. She had never worked with a trainer, and her precaution for keeping her grandchild safe was a baby gate.

The local paper didn't even mention it.

Yes, Goldens have killed people... check stats for dog bite related fatalities. Poms too, there was a Pom that killed an infant a few months ago. 80% of dog bite related fatalities are children... even a small dog can kill a toddler.

Not trying to say Rotts can't hurt people, they most certainly can. I think people take too many chances with their dogs, though, assuming (often on the basis of breed) that their family pet is incapable of hurting someone, and I hate to see the victims.

[WorkinDogz]

Oh Verbal...

You're opening a big 'ole can of worms that was just closed. ;)

Go ahead and say "Every dog will bite given the perfect circumstances" and JUST WATCH all of the "exceptions to that rule" responses you'll get.

Didn't you know that dogs are to be trusted completely??? Afterall; dogs NEVER bite family members and they "just know" right from wrong; good bite from bad bite...and IF the dog draws blood...you can act surprised because the "teddy bear" never showed *any* indications that he posessed an aggressive bone in his cuddly-wuddly body! (forget the dog aggressiveness, the territoralism, the growling over food, toys or objects, the baring of teeth when he's told to do something he doesn't want to do....there IS a logical explaination for that! He just didn't wanna. )

Yes Verbal; all dogs will bite given the perfect circumstances....but not many will do the damage dog after dog, bite after bite that this breed has proven itself capable of doing.

Cockers are still the #1 biters...but Rotties are the #1 killers. :(

[Verbal]

Gee, that list of problems and excuses sounds familiar... I feel like some dog owners are competing for the Darwin Award.

Originally posted by WorkinDogz:
Yes Verbal; all dogs will bite given the perfect circumstances....but not many will do the damage dog after dog, bite after bite that this breed has proven itself capable of doing.

Cockers are still the #1 biters...but Rotties are the #1 killers. :(

I never thought the issue of Rotties as killers was being debated. As a large breed that is frequently neglected and often sought out by people looking for a "guard dog", they're a natural for the #1 spot.

I feel that the media is negligent in failing to point out more clearly that any dog is capable of doing damage.

There is an article I like on dog breeds responsible for fatal attacks at http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/dogbreeds.pdf

It makes some excellent points regarding some social and behavioral factors that can influence a breed's likelyhood to be responsible for multiple fatalities.

The observations made there match up with the things I've seen.

[CarolineS]

The media is not out to educate people, if it doesn't make "good press", it doesn't get aired. It's a shame they can't focus on our breeds more stellar qualities, but that's the reality of the media.

By reading the article that Verbal just posted I see that Dateline was quoting correct statistics. There is no way around it. It was a program about vicious dogs and rotts and pits are at the top of the list. I think it was a very responsible show...they quoted the facts, however much we don't enjoy hearing them. When I heard that line, I, too, winced and rolled my eyes and thought, "here we go again", expecting to see pictures of slavering Rottweilers. I was very pleasantly surprised to then see them explain why these breeds comprised these statistics and to also see them place the blame squarely where it belongs, on the shoulders of human beings. In fact, I was so impressed by their take on this subject, I think I'll find their addy and email them a "congratulations". The song they sang is number one on our forums. :)

[whitney greenway]

This is my take, but I feel that it is pretty simple and to the point!

Every dog is capable of biting, shoot,any animal is capable of biting! I have a cat that will put the hurt on you like nobody's business!

HOWEVER, the facts speak for themselves!
The big guys (Rotties, Dobermans, GSD etc.)
are the ones that have the ability to maul, kill.

Those are just the cold hard facts about large powerful dogs.

Yes, the small guys can hurt you, but they don't have that FORCE going behind that bite!

[German Vanegas]

There we go, one child killed by a Pomeranian, one killed by a Cocker Spaniel, and so forth. WOW! Killer dogs in every breed. Well, do you know how many people (mostly children) have been killed by Rottweilers and "pitbulls"?... I tell you this, they are two digit figures in both cases.

People that own powerful dogs have to be ultra careful to prevent stupid mistakes or those so-called "accidents" from happening.

I can also tell you, from my own experience in personal protection dog training, that the bite power of a Rottweiler or a "pitbull" is absolutely awesome!... and frightening too. Now we are taking about wearing padded protection. There is no comparison with most other breeds, trust me ;)

[whitney greenway]

The Dateline reporter put on the padded gear and went into the ring with the GSD.

He said that with all the padded gear,in addition to the dog having had a STRENOUS WORKOUT,that it was very forceful!

That dog was still going strong!

[ March 03, 2001: Message edited by: whitney greenway ]

[CarolineS]

If anyone would like to send their feedback to Dateline on this segment, you can email them at dateline@nbc.com

[SarasMom]

Originally posted by WorkinDogz:

You can bet I'll be watching the replay of Dateline tomorrow night.

I missed this Dateline, and would really like to see this segment. When and where is the replay? Thanks. :)