Is it possible to overpet your rott?

[sumo]

hello all...we were at the dog park today and were chatting with a fellow rott owner...he told us that he was having some trouble with his rott responding to him recently...but his rott responded very well to his dog trainer...so his trainer advised him not to play with and pet up his rott too much because overpetting and horsing around can lead to a dog that does not view the owner as the alpha...this rott owner is retired so he is at home with his rott all day, and admits that he did spoil his dog by petting/hugging him constantly...he says that since he has stopped giving his dog the same kind of attention, his dog has started responding positively...does this make sense and is there any truth to this?

the reason i'm asking is because in our home, we pet up Sumo lots and we have begun to notice that he is starting to ignore us...yet he responds so well to our trainer in class and during private sessions...

regards,

Sumo's Mom

[act]

I seriously doubt you could "over pet" any pet! If your dog is not responding well to your commands the first thing I would ask is: are you being consistant when you give commands. Do you always expect the same result? Or when you are at home and say sit, sometimes you get a sit and sometimes not and when there is no sit, it is ok. I believe that this would contribute more to the inconsistant behavior. I would bet that the trainers expect and always get the correct action for the given command. Thus, the dogs "always obey". Training requires consistancy. If at home sit, come, down don't always mean those thing, they won't - if you get what I mean. Petting your dogs less or more won't change that.

[This message has been edited by act (edited February 03, 2001).]

[laurlitt]

Although it may sound silly "overpet my dog??" there is truth to that. If your dog comes up to you and bumps your arm, leans on you, or is just persistant on you petting him and giving him attention he is showing dominance over you. If you give in and pet him you are allowing him to be alpha b/c he is telling (demanding) you what to do. It may seem cute or inocent but that's the way it is. For many dogs it may not be an issue and his dominance may never show, but with others it could be a problem. It is best for you (the owner) to choose when they want to pet the dog instead of doing in when he demands. I believe this theory has something to do with dogs in the wild or in a pack/litter and grooming. The one being groomed is the alpha dog.

[Judi W]

Correct, it can be giving the dog rewards for nothing - in other words a "free lunch". Petting and stroking is a form of praise. If the dog is into social climbing, and is treated and stroked whenever it asks (demands)it, the roles of who is master can be reversed. Saving your praise and rewards for times when the dog has earned them makes them more meaningful to the dog. One of the best ways to show love and to develop a loveable dog is to provide good leadership. I find my heart really warms to a dog that has a high desire to please rather than a demanding spoiled one. Workindogz wrote a good post on this issue in a thread on withholding affection in the house where someone was trying to keep a youngster from bolting out of an unfenced area of their yard. Again, pay attention to the breed that you own. The Rottweiler has a degree of dominance and is a working dog and the mental characteristics that go along with this require good leadership (by the owner, not the dog ) for proper bonding.

[amano the indian flautist]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Judi W:
Correct, it can be giving the dog rewards for nothing - in other words a "free lunch". Petting and stroking is a form of praise. If the dog is into social climbing, and is treated and stroked whenever it asks (demands)it, the roles of who is master can be reversed. Saving your praise and rewards for times when the dog has earned them makes them more meaningful to the dog. One of the best ways to show love and to develop a loveable dog is to provide good leadership. I find my heart really warms to a dog that has a high desire to please rather than a demanding spoiled one. Workindogz wrote a good post on this issue in a thread on withholding affection in the house where someone was trying to keep a youngster from bolting out of an unfenced area of their yard. Again, pay attention to the breed that you own. The Rottweiler has a degree of dominance and is a working dog and the mental characteristics that go along with this require good leadership (by the owner, not the dog ) for proper bonding.</font>

wow!! IT's great to read all this stuff

[German Vanegas]

I concur with laurlitt and Judy W

[netescapee]

My rottie/shep mix always bumped my hip with such excitement and enthusiasm in his eyes when we said we were going in the car or to the park. He'd also run back and bump my hip if I was trying to get him to go with my daughter and I wasn't going to go. I sincerely think he wanted me to go too.

I can't believe it was a dominance issue at all. He was always obedient and loving. Never, ever challenged me over food, bones, or anything else. Any command I told him he did.

I think bumping his head against me was his way of showing excitement and also his affection for me and sometimes for my family. It was an excellent way for him to communicate those things--how else was he going to communicate them? Besides I loved it and miss him and his head bumping dearly.

Just my own thoughts and feelings.

[German Vanegas]

netescapee,
Just bumping is totally different than leaning, pushing, pinning down, holding, and other similar actions, which are consistent with demanding behavior that may end in control and dominance from a dog.

[netescapee]

Noog, the rottie/shep mix also leaned but it always seemed like pure affection. He never mounted or pushed, etc. It was so cute, we'd sit in the kitchen and he'd come sit by us with us in the chair. He'd then lean against our leg and plop his head over sideways into our laps for a pet. It was so endearing. He stopped doing that however as his cancer progressed and it was so gradual that until later we didn't even realize he'd stopped doing it. Then we realized that for about 2-3 weeks he hadn't been doing it.

I do realize every dog is different. Noog is the one that had been left on a 4-foot rope tied to a dog house that was half his size. The first 3-4 nights he slept propped against the wall like he had been forced to do sleeping in that itty-bitty dog house. He just loved and appreciated every little thing we did for him.

I don't think I'll ever have a friend or a pet that touched me as genuinely and deeply as that dog did. That's the only reason for my comments.

[DianaC]

I believe it to be true also. They must still now you are the boss and when you don't want to pat/stroke them you just don't. My parents have a Border Collie who would sit there for ages and just let you stroke her head.

[sumo]

thanks guys...i guess i really do overpet him, especially when he comes to sit near me... i'll have to be more conscious of this in future... don't wan't him to look at me as his slave!...thanks for confirming this for me everyone... great info!

[hodomu]

I think it depends on the dog. I have a Rotti mixed breed, & he lays his head on you & leans on you, but this is definitely affection, & not dominance. My GSD went through a phase where he was a bit pushy & insistent that you pet him. This was a demand! My rotti female just likes to sit pretty close, she doesn't lean or demand petting, or bump your arm. I believe the best thing is to study the dog, you can pretty much tell if or not, they are being affectionate or plain demanding! I think a headbutt by a Rotti would be very uncomfortable! Probably knock you down if done with any enthusiasm Don't believe there is a hard & fast rule for petting them, as I said, depends on the dog. Just my oppinion

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by Cynthia Thomas:
I think it depends on the dog.

If your dog has a soft temperament or is submissive, well, you should not worry about dominant behavior. However, a typical well-bred Rottweiler is a strong-willed dog with dominant tendencies. Sure! It all depends on the individual dog, but you better know how to correctly interpret your dog's behavior, or it could cause serious problems of your own ;)

[Diane Heller-Vaccaro]

That trainer gave very good advice.

For people who haven't had to deal with a dominant dog let me say its no fun trying to retrain them. Often they are the ones turned into the shelter because "they're out of control and don't listen". Its much easier to set the ground rules from the start and see how the puppy develops, if the puppy is a softer dog than chances are over-petting the dog isn't going to create a monster. Keeping in mind its the alpha dog that gets all the attention so if you find yourself stopping what you're doing because your being bumped or nudged into petting your dog. You can still pet him but first make him work for it, a sit or a down first.

[hodomu]

German, I would say that my Rotti is of the soft type, so I suppose she isn't well bred at all. I do know she is from a BYB, not my choice, she was a gift. However, I wish I had ten more just like her. I have worked with her from day one, & she is very well behaved, & so far I have no complaints. She did try to dominate one of my other dogs, & my cat, but I corrected her. She seems to have accepted her place in my household, on the floor, & on her own mattress. Whatever she is, hard or soft or in the middle, shes a much loved Rottweiler, & a great blessing for which, I'm grateful