Is it bad dogs? Or bad dog owners?!

[German Vanegas]

Every so often I like to bring to people's attention this worrisome issue concerning responsible dog ownership, particularly when deals with a large powerful breed... like the great Rottweiler.

I replied to a thread posted in the Chit Chat Section, concerning irresponsible dog ownership, and I think it may go overlooked if I don't posted here in the General Section. People need to know. We all need to refresh our memories.

The following is my reply, slightly modified. Please, I beg you to read it carefully:

The fact is that the vast majority of dog bites come from UNTRAINED dogs and, in some cases, badly trained dogs. Scary enough, these are signs of a growing epidemic. According to a report released by the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, dog attacks eclipse measles, mumps, and whooping cough, all combined, as a health threat to children!!! http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/frown.gif

The number of dog bites that caused people to seek medical care increased from 585,000 in 1986 to more than 800,000 in 1994!

It is firmly believed that the increase of these unjustified dog attacks are due, in part, to the growing popularity of dogs that people buy to protect and guard them against violent crime. Some of these popular breeds are the German Shepherd Dog, the Doberman Pinscher, the Akita, the "pitbull", the Bullmastiff, and so forth. Sadly enough, for that same reason, the Rottweiler breed went from a 15th place in 1986, to the second most owned dog in the American Kennel Club's registry of breeds. A reason given from many people was (and still is) they were looking for a "security" dog, as in all it takes is to feed the dog and "let him guard"! Fortunately, the Rottweiler is decreasing in popularity... Sadly, is due its negative image. Hence, realize that people are afraid of our dogs! http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/frown.gif

As you can see, most people got (and still get) Rottweilers for all the wrong reasons. Many people relies heavily on the Rottweiler's guarding instinct, a known heritage of the breed. The problem is, they don't consider, neither they assume, the moral and legal liabilities arise from such decision! FACT: few dog owners were (and are) committed to properly raise and train a powerful dog like the Rottweiler

According to the same above mentioned study, between 1979 and 1996 Rottweilers were responsible for 29 fatal attacks (it is currently up to 35), second only to "pitbulls", which accounted for 60 (up to 71).

I have to point out again, the problem isn't so much the dogs, as it is the ignorant people who got to have this "big, mean, powerful dog", who can only be nice to them! You know, the kinds of people that raise and keep "junkyard guard dogs" in family settings and residential communities! http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/frown.gif

These imbecile irresponsible dog owners actually like it, and are proud of, when their dogs are aggressive to other people! Except them as owners or "masters", of course!

Obviously, if you carefully analyzed all of the stated above, our children are at higher risk of being attacked and bitten by dogs, because of their size (height & weight), ignorance and innocence about canine behavior (Here parents can help, but bear in mind this: No child is a match for an overly aggressive or vicious dog! The child always lose! ) http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/frown.gif

But it gets worse, according to the Insurance Information Institute, one-third of all liability claims on homeowner's insurance are for dog attacks!!! So nowadays is harder and harder to get homeowner's insurance if you own a Rottweiler (among a few other breeds)!

Indeed Rottweilers can be great family companion security dogs, but the problem is that a lot of people who buy them to deter crime don't have the dedication and/or the inclination to train them appropriately. Of course, things can go wrong when irresponsible people own a large powerful dog!!!

By the way, so you people know, according to the Insurance Information Institute most dog attacks occur on the owners' property (70% of the times!)

I am sorry but I am sad and I am pissed-off! My beloved breed is branded as the “deadliest dog”, the “devil's dog”, “the mean mofo dog”, and so forth... *DEEP SIGH* What a tragedy irresponsible humans have created for the noble Rottweiler to pay with dire consequences.

IRRESPONSIBLE BREEDERS AND IRRESPONSIBLE DOG OWNERS ARE RUINING THE ROTTWEILER!

[luvarott]

You're singing to the choir German!! Won't do much good cus of course we all agree that it is 99% the human's fault.
There are some dogs that are genetically wired wrong.....course they were bred by genetically inferior breeders and sold to genetically inferior owners.......

[winniecnm]

I wholeheartedly agree with every word of that post. IMO, it needs to be printed at every pet shop, vet's office and dog magazine in the US. It is easy to blame all of this on the breed or dog and never look deeper into the problem and see that WE created it.

And also, as a part of being responsible dog owners, we take the time to ensure that children and dogs learn the rules as to how they should interact! I cannot say how many times I have heard of children being bitten for pulling tails and ears, laying on the dog, being rough etc. And in the same token, the dog needs to learn what is acceptable behavior around kids. Some adults need to learn these lessons too. http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif

[STYK]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by luvarott:
You're singing to the choir German!! Won't do much good cus of course we all agree that it is 99% the human's fault.
There are some dogs that are genetically wired wrong.....course they were bred by genetically inferior breeders and sold to genetically inferior owners.......</font>

I agree with your post 1000%. It all starts with the breeder. The people that are out there to make money do not care of the temperment of the animal or genetics.. So they inbreed, and produce a dog that is not suitable as a pet. It is these people that are ruining the reputaion of all kinds of breeds. Not just the Rottweiler. It happens from Rotties to Beagles.
The worst part that is an uninformed public goes out and buys a dog from the best salesman(the backyard breeder). They are cheaper than most REAL breeders and make outrageous claims(Big Head, 200 pound dogs) Most of the time they buy with no information other than what they hear on TV or through other uninformed people.
One way I see that this can be slowed, I doubt it is possible to put a stop to it is actual checks by the AKC. But then again it is very easy to falsify documents. Unless their is someone their at the actual time that fertilization occurs who can say what dog was the father to the puppys?
Then you get the people who do not take care of the animal which in turn makes it mean. I got bit by a German Shepard when i was younger because the dog was bought to be a junk yard dog, it started as a cute puppy but never got fed, this dog was lucky to eat 3-4 times a week. I did not provoke the bite at all. Luckily the owner was near and grabbed him before i got hurt.
i will be the first one to admit that I did not have enough information when I bought my dog. But luckily I was blessed with a great tempered dog, we taught each other a lot. After getting him I did most of my research. Which was the exact opposite that I should have done. Now he is a well trained and obedient family pet.

You can say it is a good and bad thing that Rottweiler ownership is going down. But then again it is the wrong people that are still buying and raising the dog. Those are the ones who want a big powerful mean looking dog.. Then the others that arent are the peple with families or children, who if they did their research would know that if bought from the right family lines and the right responsible breeder that they would have a nice family pet.
The breeder of my dog still answers all questions and checks on my dog. HE IS 2 YEARS OLD! How many can say that their breeder still cares after 2 years? I would definately buy another dog from her.
It all comes down to responsiblity, but who can make everyone responsible? It is impossible. The best thing that can be done is to give information. Which is what makes this website so great. This place has taught me just as much if not more than any book I have read on the Rottweier.

[Grumbler]

German,

First off I agree that most of the time it is humans who are the root of the problem;bite, maul, or death. The owner did not do one or maybe all of these: train, control, understand, or evaluate their dog's temperament. And of course when ignorant(lacking knowledge) breeders breed poor quality dogs......you most definitely will buy a poor quality puppy. These qualities could be health, breed standard qualities, major faults, and of course timid and aggressive pups..... who will grow into Big Dogs who bite. Now most of you trainers will probably agree that most of these(timid/aggressive)pups if put in the right hands can be raised and trained to be well tempered dogs.

I do believe that although the stats show a large increase in bites, I would say they are probably even higher. How many family members and friends do not report the dog bite out of fear and loyalty to the owner.

I also agree that the majority of dog bites are related to ignorance of the owner. Ignorance is defined as lacking in knowledge. Just look at how many people come out of Walmart and food stores with highly toxic, unhealthy, poor quality, dog foods and feel good about feeding their dogs this junk. Again, it is due to ignorance and refusing to have an open mind.

So, regarding this issue we agree that the ignorance of breeders and dog owners is putting our Breed on the most dangerous list, as well as many other fine dogs, what do we do to correct it?

There are so many variables that contribute to ignorance;education, finances, language barrier and so on. The wealthiest and most highly educated can be as ignorant as the poor uneducated. We have the problem identified now what do we do and how do we change it..........come on German..... I have faith in you bro http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif


------------------
GUCCI'S DAD
Doug



[This message has been edited by Grumbler (edited January 06, 2001).]

[Bruce Lanthier]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by STYK:
...It all comes down to responsiblity, but who can make everyone responsible? It is impossible. The best thing that can be done is to give information. Which is what makes this website so great. This place has taught me just as much if not more than any book I have read on the Rottweier. </font>

I think German identifies the problem very well and STYK suggests one of the best solutions. I am a more educated dog owner by virtue of visiting this site often. Now, when I speak with people about Buster, I can speak with the knowledge gained here and try and educate others. And, as everyone here knows, when we are out with our dogs, we attract a lot of attention AND conversation.

[Michael C.]

Total lack of knowledge is a major problem. Do you know how many people give me a funny look when I tell them Sasha is a house dog? People buy a dog, throw it in the backyard, feed it and thats it. And when it barks at anything and everything, the feel safe because their dog is protecting them. Little do they know that if their dog was every put in a very stressful situation where it had to decide to protect you or save its own a$$, what would happen? The dog would run away with its tail tucked between it legs, or its nub I should say. People ask me all the time, "is she protective?" and I tell them that she will alert me if she hears a strange noise etc., but thats it. Then the ask "why won't she protect you?" Then I have to explain to them that she is not trained to do that and very few dogs are even cabable of such training. Rotties are loosing popularity for the wrong reasons, but I am glad to see their popularity declining

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by STYK:
It all starts with the breeder. The people that are out there to make money do not care of the temperment of the animal or genetics.. So they inbreed, and produce a dog that is not suitable as a pet. It is these people that are ruining the reputaion of all kinds of breeds. Not just the Rottweiler. It happens from Rotties to Beagles</font>

The UNETHICAL breeder is only part of the problem, whether be a backyard breeder, a puppy for-profit-farm, an idiot that thinks he/she knows "how is done", a commercial breeder, ect. However, let us not overlook that also INDIVIDUAL dog ownership plays an important role in the positive rearing of the dog. It is not secret that fine well-bred dogs are ruined by DOG OWNERS, inasmuch as an ethical breeder tries to place the puppies in the best suitable homes, it is near impossible to prevent that the dog owner will ruin the dog. The problem is shared equally by the legions of irresponsible people, breeders and dog owners http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif

I also like to clarify two things for you.

One, the Rottweiler cannot be compared to the Beagle, or most other breeds for that matter. The Rottweiler is robust, powerful, and strong breed that, wrongly raised, can inflict terrible damage to a human being, including death. Beagles, and most other breeds, cannot. That is why we have to be EXTRA responsible when we own a Rottweiler. This is not the breed for everybody http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif

Two, breeding should be left ONLY for the honestly committed, knowledgeable, dedicated, experienced people, that does it for the true love of the breed (namely: ethical breeder). And not by just anybody that wants to mate dogs, like to have their pet mated to see how the pups come out, or make a few dollars out the dog, or to show their children the miracle of life, or to relief their dog's sexual horniness, and so forth, all of them wrong invalid reasons. However, done by ETHICAL BREEDERS, you know, the ones that really know what they are doing, inbreeding is an acceptable practice. For your infomation, some of the finest worldwide renown Rottweilers come from inbreeding. Of course, the vast majority of people have no clue as to what are the golden rules of inbreeding, thus we see and hear of so many horrible failures and fiascos, due to "wannabe" breeders doing wrong http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/frown.gif

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Grumbler:
...We have the problem identified now what do we do and how do we change it..........come on German..... I have faith in you bro http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif </font>

Come on bro, give me a break too! http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif I am doing my part. WE ALL NEED TO DO OURS People think that I have "no life" or that I am a retired "old man". Far from it. I am quite busy. I have plenty of work in my private investigations business; I have a family to take care of; I have two high-driven dogs; I have to work-out with weights and do aerobics to stay, you know why, in shape and conditioned; I go to the shooting range every week; I share some time with my buddies to have a drink (OK,OK, a "few" http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif ), and it goes on and on... Nevertheless, still I find the time, every day, to commit to this forum, accessed by so many thousands of people, to provide the right information, dispel so many myths, so many misconceptions, help Rottweiler owners the best I can (you have no idea of the volume of e-mails I get every day eihter), all for the love of OUR beloved breed.

HOOOOA!!! Have a good one Doug http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif



[This message has been edited by German Vanegas (edited January 06, 2001).]

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Michael C.:
... Do you know how many people give me a funny look when I tell them Sasha is a house dog? People buy a dog, throw it in the backyard, feed it and thats it. And when it barks at anything and everything, the feel safe because their dog is protecting them. </font>

Unfortunately, many inside dogs are also badly raised and badly kept by their owners, thus developing all kinds of behavioral problems, including aggression. Indoors or outdoors is not really the problem. As long as it is done right, you know, the right way, outdoors or indoors makes no difference.

[Michael C.]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by German Vanegas:
Unfortunately, many inside dogs are also badly raised and badly kept by their owners, thus developing all kinds of behavioral problems, including aggression. Indoors or outdoors is not really the problem. As long as it is done right, you know, the right way, outdoors or indoors makes no difference. </font>

I was referring to the people who leave their dog in the backyard with no human interaction at all.

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Michael C.:
I was referring to the people who leave their dog in the backyard with no human interaction at all.

</font>

I was referring to the people that keep their dogs inside, with human interaction and all, and still fail miserably to properly raise their dogs.

[Caleb'sMom]

I'd like to take this opportunity to ask for your help.

In another forum, someone thankfully brought up the fact that New Hampshire is bringing up breed specific legislation. Rotties, pit bulls and dobermans are the subject.

I called the guy involved, the selectman who is trying to pass the bill. He is 73, and got attacked by a doberman when going door to door as a part of his job. Understandibly, he now wants to 'protect people.'

What his bill entails is that everyone who wants to own one of the breeds will have to go to the selectmen's office and get permission to own one. Current owners will be grandfathered, new owners will of course have to get approved and pay yet another fee.

I see good and bad sides to this. One, it would be good to screen out irresponsible potential owners and breeders. The bad thing is, it puts that power in uninformed hands, hands of people who may be fear driven. He confessed to me that he didn't think it would pass because the officials won't want the additional work.

I told him my fears, told him that many people see this as the beginning of the end for all of the responsible owners and breeders. He concurred and said that he knows of hound owners who are against him fo r taht reason. I went on to tell him about responsible Rottweiler owners I have met through a rottweiler discussion group, people who are award winning schutzhund competitors and breeders who all feel that no Rottweiler should be used as a home protection device. He was surprised.

In general, he was very open, and looking to hear what I had to say. I stopped at that point, he asked me to come to the meeting when it came time, so I could offer an educated opinion. It was nice considering my opinion didn't exactly concur with his.

What I'm posting this for, is to ask you, German, Orville, Workingdogz, Angelbunny, Dale, (and others who I've forgotten) to contact me. I am seriously considering getting involved, because its too close to home. My dog is wonderful, and everyone who meets him knows it.

What I am looking for is your input on:
the possibility of asking this man to instead try for breeder screening.
the possibility of aksing this man to instead push for mandatory CGC and TT testing of all 2 year olds.
and to make sure that people can only sell puppies whose sire and dam are CGC and TT awarded.
Please bear in mind that I would never push for any of this myself, I don't know if I'm even right to suggest it.

I closed by telling him that the last thing any responsible owner or breeder wants is for his dog to be used as a walking gun or status symbol.

Please give me an email, I can give you my number so you can call me collect. I want to get involved, but I want to be sure I do it right, if I do it at all, and you all know much more about this than me.

char13amy@netscape.net

My email space is limited, so bear with it if you have trouble. Thank you so much in advance.

Amy

[STYK]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">[/b]

I also like to clarify two things for you.

One, the Rottweiler cannot be compared to the Beagle, or most other breeds for that matter. The Rottweiler is robust, powerful, and strong breed that, wrongly raised, can inflict terrible damage to a human being, including death. Beagles, and most other breeds, cannot. That is why we have to be EXTRA responsible when we own a Rottweiler. This is not the breed for everybody http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif

</font>

I was not trying to put the Rottweiler in the same league as the Beagle just stating that it happens everywhere and to all different kinds of dogs.

German,
your points are very accurate. The dog owner can ruin a good dog. There is one good thing though that I have seen is that a lot of people actually make you fill out a questionare and visit the home before selling them a dog. i believe that is one very good step towards progress.
I try to educate as many people as I can and whoever is willing to listen about my dog.
I did not know that inbreeding was accepted, but that is one more thing that I learned through this site. http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif

[German Vanegas]

Amy,
In my opinion, once the government, whether be federal, state, or local, gets involved in dog legislation, there will be from mild to gross misinterprations and errors in the enacting and enforcing of those laws. I am frightened about the threat of the government regulating dog breeds. Look at what happened in the United Kingdom (Great Britain), Singapore, Germany, Holland, Denmark, France, etc. Those are typical examples of politicians wrongly interpreting an issue, because of that many breed fanciers and dog owners got terribly hurt. Most dog laws are senseless and draconian, and are based mostly on ignorance about canine behavior! See, if the same politician you talked to, had been bitten by a Standard Poodle, would that warrant to propose the banning of that breed?!... Absolutely no! Food for thought http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif