Is it bad dogs? Or bad dog owners?!

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by whitney greenway:
This is my take,
It is the breeders responsiblity to make sure that they are SENDING out sound dogs! It is our responsiblity to make sure that we RAISE sound dogs! I think that it goes hand and hand! The sad thing is when someone drops the ball, on either side, the dog and breed suffers! </font>

YES!!!! You got my point across. Indeed, that is it! Thanks!

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rottmommie:
...you say that 70% of dog bites occur on ones personal property....do we know if those stats are with invited or uninvited guests??? </font>

F.Y.I., ONLY 3% of recorded and accounted dog bites were found to be justified , meaning: dogs actually defending lives and property. The remaining 97% of dog bites were found to be UNJUSTIFIED. Also, nobody is saying the all those dog bites refer to the Rottweiler alone. Obviously, there are other different breeds involved. However, I can tell from REAL LIFE KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE that the Rottweiler's bite is one of the most powerful of all breeds. Why would you think UNJUSTIFIED attacks by Rottweilers have caused the DEATH OF 35 HUMANS?! None of the recorded deads was to a criminal or felon! Why do you think Insurance Companies are avoiding to provide homeowner's coverage to Rottweiler owners, among other few breeds?!

You got it all wrong. This issue is not about "slamming" the Rottweiler (as you have taken the position to "defend" it). It is about creating PUBLIC AWARENESS concerning the moral and legal liabilities of breeding and owning a powerful large dog. Try again

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Grumbler:
German,
Jackass........no........BIG DOG...Yes...LMAO. Yes you are a busy man as probably most of us on this forum are; men and women...
Be careful..... because I heard St. Peter isn't to happy lately.

Hooah!!</font>

Bro, go back to my original reply and re-read it. I had to changed it. First, I think it did not come accross the right way. Secondly, since people don't know you and I are a friends (a couple of jackasses ), it may give the wrong impression that you and I are fighting, when in fact we are not, but other people don't know that. And you are right, St. Peter ain't too happy lately!

HOOOOA!!!! Don't forget: guts and danger!!

[Grumbler]

German.....

No fighting here......it would sound like WWIII if we went at it......LOL. I still have a case of 7.62 from the millenium.... end of the world s**t. Again, I respect your knowledge and appreciate the help you have given me in the past. I continue to look to you an a few of my close friends for help.....HEY Workndogz...

To all the other members...we don't fight we just argue......LMFAO



------------------
GUCCI'S DAD
Doug

[marianne]

this is in small print all the way for a reason....i want to speak real softly here. so many owners posting in behavior..why..i'm not slamming but why in the world don't they get the proper training for their dogs....granted bad breeding is out there...we can't stop that(sure wish we could).but training classes for our ROTTWEILERS is a must! i don't care if it's a rescue,byb or top dog!!!

[rottmommie]

well, in no way did I ever say German that YOU were the one responsible for gathering the stats and slamming the breed!!!! OF COURSE you are trying to raise public awareness....but it seems that there are many naysayers out there also that claim they are trying to raise public awareness , by telling us all how dangerous our dogs are!! and YES, I myself can see why I would rather be bitten by almost anything else short of a crocodile!!!!!! I know what you mean, you are trying to get all of us to tell folks to educate them selves before trying to purchase ANY breed of dog, for the sake of the dog, and the person that may one day wind up encountering him!!!! TOO bad some of those folks will find out too late! but YOU TRIED!

[WorkinDogz]

marianne,

Your whispering should be heard 'round the world. WHY is it so many people would rather "wing it" than admit they don't have the knowledge and skills required to properly train a dog? It's NOT a sign of weakness to enroll in obedience courses! It IS a sign of irresponsibility to think that problems will "go away with age".

Grumbler....

Back at ya Big Dog Stay safe please.

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rottmommie:
...but it seems that there are many naysayers out there also that claim they are trying to raise public awareness , by telling us all how dangerous our dogs are!! </font>

He, he, he. You did not get right... Again! Yes, Rottweilers can be, and in fact they are, dangerous dogs... in the hands of irresponsible people (breeders and/or dog owners though!. The statistics speak clearly for themselves: 35 fatalities (dead humans!). Are you going to "cover the sun with your thumb" and say something like "Rottweilers are misunderstood clownish teddy bears" ?!. Not me! I deal with a reality of life... Maybe still you haven't get my point, so I say this once again just for you : The Rottweiler breed is not for everybody

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rottmommie:TOO bad some of those folks will find out too late! but YOU TRIED!</font>

In regards to your last statement, I have to tell you this, if I were one fourth (1/4) as pesimistic as you are, I guess I wouldn't be around anymore!

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by marianne:
this is in small print all the way for a reason....i want to speak real softly here. so many owners posting in behavior..why..i'm not slamming but why in the world don't they get the proper training for their dogs....granted bad breeding is out there...we can't stop that(sure wish we could).but training classes for our ROTTWEILERS is a must! i don't care if it's a rescue,byb or top dog!!!</font>

YES!!! You got it right!

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Grumbler:
German.....

No fighting here......it would sound like WWIII if we went at it......LOL

To all the other members...we don't fight we just argue......LMFAO </font>

Ooooooh Yeah! Too much will to prevail! LOL!

You "Big dog"?! Since when?! "Giant dog" is more appropriate... I'm the big dog HOOOOOA!!!

[rottmommie]

with all due respect....paranoia will destroy ya.

[valdes43]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by German Vanegas:
HOOOOOA!!!

</font>

Man, I just finaled out/ ETSed 2 weeks ago. Already giving my memories. HOOOOOAH!
( Didn't mean to sidetrack )

[Dei]

This is an interesting thread.

It's true that all dogs can bite. Small dogs can hurt people. Meduim sized dogs can maim people. Large dogs can kill people. And large powerful dogs can kill people easily. And rottweilers go in the last class of dog, fortunately or otherwise.

Irrespective of how a dog is bred, whether or not a dog actually gets to be a danger to society is in the hands of the owner. The world's nastiest dog can't hurt anyone if it doesn't get the opportunity to do so.

You know something that shocks me? Now I don't watch too much TV but I've seen loads of news programs where someone comes over from the shelters and preaches the good message of overflowing shelters and the need to neuter pets. One thing I am yet to see is someone coming on the news and talking about the screaming need to TRAIN dogs.

And we wonder why there's a problem?

I'd like to say very softly that if even half of dog owners knew to find the right dog, train it right and keep it in the right environment (I don't have a problem with outside or inside: there are well-adjusted dogs in both places), we'd see shelters closing, vets less busy, upholsters having less business and dog bites way down.*

On legislation, I think it's pretty much a given that laws of some sort or the other are probably going to be passed, since the magnitude of the dog bite problem is too serious to be ignored. I think that it's our responsibility as citizens (or residents at least) of a community to educate lawmakers so that any laws they may pass will be intelligent ones we can live with. In the very best case scenario, they'd ask a committee made up of dog trainers, breeders and other dog-savvy folk to make recommendations on the best way to help stem the dog bite epidemic.

I haven't the answers, but I'm inclined to think that laws that put more effort into funding educational programs (heck, if you consider that a child is more likely to be bitten by a dog [or three] than to be killed in a school building fire, then it does make sense to teach how to behave around dogs in the classroom, does it not?) that raise awareness of the problem. And since most places already have dog licences, I'd like to see a system whereby owners who can demonstrate that they can control their dogs(through passing the CGC or some other test requiring obedience under unstructured circumstances) pay next to nothing and people who can't demonstrate that they've got control over their dogs pay more. Also, how much a person pays will be adjusted by time -- I think it's fair to pay progressively less as your dog ages if there's no trouble reported, so as to reward responsible dog ownership. And I think that people who are responsible dog owners should have increased protection against being denied housing (unless that specific dog is causing problems).


Just my two cents.

Dei.


* On the subject of training, one thing I wish would get out is an honest look at the protection value of dogs, but that's another subject.

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rottmommie:
with all due respect....paranoia will destroy ya.</font>

You call paranoia the current worrisome situation of the Rottweiler breed?!... In case you fell sleep, our breed is being banned and restricted all over the world! You know why?! Due to IRRESPONSIBLE BREEDERS AND DOG OWNERS, what else?! That is a fact not fiction. We have to do our best to educate potential and current dog owners, although some people are listening, others don't want to...

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dei:It's true that all dogs can bite. Small dogs can hurt people. Meduim sized dogs can maim people. Large dogs can kill people. And large powerful dogs can kill people easily. And rottweilers go in the last class of dog, fortunately or otherwise.

Irrespective of how a dog is bred, whether or not a dog actually gets to be a danger to society is in the hands of the owner. The world's nastiest dog can't hurt anyone if it doesn't get the opportunity to do so.</font>

Absolutely! However, do not ignore the fact that some breeders breed overly aggressive dogs or fear-biters dogs and sell them with no qualms. Of course, a tragic incident is bound to happen after that.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dei:On legislation, I think it's pretty much a given that laws of some sort or the other are probably going to be passed, since the magnitude of the dog bite problem is too serious to be ignored. I think that it's our responsibility as citizens (or residents at least) of a community to educate lawmakers so that any laws they may pass will be intelligent ones we can live with. </font>

That's the biggest challenge: to have politicians to listen to the facts and not to passionate senseless arguments from anti-dog groups and the extremists in animal rights activism. I am frighten about the Goverment involvement in dog legislation. The examples set by countries like the U.K., Germany, Singapore, Holland, France, Denmark, etc., are not only very discouraging but also they proved up that those laws are merely based on total ignorance about canine behavior, thus hurting different dog breed fanciers.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dei:I haven't the answers, but I'm inclined to think that laws that put more effort into funding educational programs (heck, if you consider that a child is more likely to be bitten by a dog [or three] than to be killed in a school building fire, then it does make sense to teach how to behave around dogs in the classroom, does it not?) that raise awareness of the problem.</font>

I agree, it would help quite a bit. Nevertheless, allow me to remind you:A child is not match for an aggressive dog, particularly if it is large one. You can teach a child all the basic rules about how to properly interact with a dog and how to fend a dog attack, but once a powerful breed is out of control attacking a child, this child have little, if any chance, to come out unscathed of such unequaled battle. I know so

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dei:And since most places already have dog licences, I'd like to see a system whereby owners who can demonstrate that they can control their dogs(through passing the CGC or some other test requiring obedience under unstructured circumstances) </font>

The dog licensing in most cities and towns in the USA are just for rabies control (tags & certificates), but they are not like a "license to own a dog". As far as the temperament testing is concerned, I am very afraid that may be designed by the Government, instead of an accredited dog club or association. Look at what happened in Holland and Germany. Those temperament tests are so unrealistic, bordering with the ridiculous, that even the famous even tempered "Lassie" may flunk it!!!

Thanks for your intelligent reply Dei