American or German???

[Gottaluvdapuppy]

This is my wifes login name, sorry about the confussion but mine doesn't seem to be working.

Anyway to the question. My wife and I just got a little Rottie pup. We did not go to a very knoligidle breeder, but then again we weren't looking for a show or breeding animal. Just a small note, from reading a lot of posts it seems like a mojor opinion of the group is that you should only gety a pup from a reputable breeder and that all others aren't worth getting. This seems very odd to me since there are very many breeders out there than don't produce quaility "show" dogs but these pups still need a good home, and I would rather see these non-breed standard dogs go to resposible and loving owners than somewhere else. In fact I witnessed that myself. We weren't sure that we were going to take Diesle home, but then a family showed up and started looking at the other pups. I really got a bad feeling about them and they didn't even know how to pick one up. A Rottie is not a good first dog. I think that they just wanted a fighting dog, because they only wanted a male. That is when we decided to take him home. I really feel that anyone who is a responsible owner and not looking for a show dog should really consider "rescueng" some of these puppies from possibly going to bad homes. With proper training they still make wonderful pets, companions, and family protectors.

Anyway the question: Is there really an American and a German Rott. People ask me if I have a German or American. I tell them there is no differance really, except the bloodline. I am assuming "German Rotts" may have that weird Sch*** word in their bloodline. But as far as any research I have done, AKC and German guidelines are near identical. I run into people that think they are breeders, but insist there is a difference. My motherr bred shelties growing up, and I knew several breeders of different breeds, and none were like the Rott breeders I run into. It seems that too many people just want to breed there Rott because its a popular dog and they want to make money, it just disgusts me!!! Anyway is there any difference or when I run into people that say they have a "German Rott" can I just call them an idiot?

Plese help

James - Proud father of Diesel (9 weeks old)

[Sansano]

Originally posted by Gottaluvdapuppy
It seems that too many people just want to breed there Rott because its a popular dog and they want to make money, it just disgusts me!!!

And what is more disgusting is the fact that people buy from these breeders. Your purchase justs help encouraged irresponsible breeding.

[Carina43]

I have to agree with Mike here. Yes, it's true that unethically bred puppies can make wonderful pets & companions - anyone who has rescued dogs knows that. By giving this person money, you encouraged him to let his dogs breed again. If you really want to do a good deed for a dog, get one from a kill shelter or breed rescue group.

As to the German or American question, I usually say he's American because if he was German he'd have his tail. ;) That usually shuts them up because they don't know what I'm talking about.

[TrinityRun]

First, congratulations on your puppy.

<My wife and I just got a little Rottie pup. We did not go to a very knoligidle breeder, but then again we weren't looking for a show or breeding animal. >

This is a common mistake. The average Rottweiler litter is approx 7 puppies. Reputable breeders understand that not all of these puppies will be show (breedable) quality. Some of these puppies may deviate somewhat from the ideal - perhaps their eyes are not as dark as they should be, they may be missing some teeth, a small white spot on the chest. These faults have nothing to do with the intelligence of the pup and his or her ability to make an excellent companion. It just means they are not suitable to the breeding program. The benefits of acquiring a pup from this kind of breeder are immeasurable. The same level of research and care has been afforded to these puppies and you will find a good breeder is equally concerned with these pups as the show quality ones, putting them out on mandatory spay/neuter contracts, rebates for titles, warranties on health, etc.

<Just a small note, from reading a lot of posts it seems like a mojor opinion of the group is that you should only gety a pup from a reputable breeder and that all others aren't worth getting. This seems very odd to me since there are very many breeders out there than don't produce quaility "show" dogs but these pups still need a good home, and I would rather see these non-breed standard dogs go to resposible and loving owners than somewhere else. In fact I witnessed that myself. We weren't sure that we were going to take Diesle home, but then a family showed up and started looking at the other pups. I really got a bad feeling about them and they didn't even know how to pick one up. A Rottie is not a good first dog. I think that they just wanted a fighting dog, because they only wanted a male. That is when we decided to take him home.>

Another common mistake that, as some of the other posters have outlined, only serves to encourage them to keep breeding. The ONLY way to stop backyard breeders is to hit them in the pocketbook. It's the only thing they understand. Contrary to what they tell you - not all puppies are created the same.

<I really feel that anyone who is a responsible owner and not looking for a show dog should really consider "rescueng" some of these puppies from possibly going to bad homes. With proper training they still make wonderful pets, companions, and family protectors.>

Rescue is not picking out a pup from someone who shouldn't be breeding in the first place. It's not for some owner looking to shirk his responsibility several months down the road when the dog has grown too big. It's for dogs in shelters and abusive situations. Obtain a rescue from a legitimate rescue organizations and never buy a puppy on impulse.

<Anyway the question: Is there really an American and a German Rott.>

Of course. One is born in America. One is born in Germany.

<People ask me if I have a German or American. I tell them there is no differance really, except the bloodline. I am assuming "German Rotts" may have that weird Sch*** word in their bloodline. But as far as any research I have done, AKC and German guidelines are near identical.>

The manner in which dogs are permitted to breed is completely different in Germany than it is here. Here anyone can breed their untitled, unproven, no health clearance Rottweiler to another Rottweiler if they choose.

In Germany, the dog must first have a breed suitability test (Ztp). In this test the dog is critiqued and measured against the FCI standard. The dog must conform in height, eye color, dentition, type, movement. The dog's hips must be certified free of dysplasia. The dog is observed in a group of people closing in on him, in light obedience his nerves will be tested by gunfire. If the dog meets all the requirements in the first half, (s)he is allowed to go on to the second portion which involves a version of the Schutzhund 1 routine with the first grip being a defense grip. Germany also has an extensive Breed Warden system. There are rules on how many times a stud dog can be bred in a year, or how often a bitch can whelp - many differences. Please do searches on this and read up about it.

Bottom line - no dog in Germany gets bred that is God awful. In the US, you can breed anything, anytime, as much as you want.

There is no difference, however, in type. A good Rottweiler conformationally is a good Rottweiler - regardless of where he is born.

<I run into people that think they are breeders, but insist there is a difference.>

A breeder by definition is someone who puts two dogs together to create a litter of puppies. It ends there. The knowledge, experience, care and consideration are what separate the ethical breeder from the backyard breeder.

<My motherr bred shelties growing up, and I knew several breeders of different breeds, and none were like the Rott breeders I run into. It seems that too many people just want to breed there Rott because its a popular dog and they want to make money, it just disgusts me!!!>

That is correct. So please do your best to not encourage other people to purchase dogs from these kinds of breeders.

< Anyway is there any difference or when I run into people that say they have a "German Rott" can I just call them an idiot?

Plese help>

Well, don't call them an idiot because essentially they are asking you a question you don't know the answer to - so that sorta puts you on the same level as them. ;)

Instead, be courteous and helpful - encourage them to learn more. Gather up some helpful links and literature on the breed, breeding, training, resources, etc.

Hope this helps.

[Gottaluvdapuppy]

I would like to thank everyone for their feedback. I appreciate the clarification for the kinds of pups you encourage people to get. I would like to clarify a few things though.

1) The money we paid for Diesel was actually less than we would have paid at the pound to rescue a dog. My wife and I had benn to the pound more than a dozen times looking for a puppy to rescue, but couldn't find one that fit both our personalities. We had picked up Patriot from a Shar-pei and Bulldog breeder who I would never have bought a purebred dog from, once again not paying enough to give this breeder any financial gain. My wife had never seen a Rottie pup, and we initially just went to look. The "breeder" had an accidental litter, and the puppies were not papered, and she was just trying to get rid of them, first come first serve. I know that its not the best thing, but I really feel that if any true dog lover would have seen the family that wanted to take Diesel home, that they would have got him then too. The parents both "seemed" well tempered and healthy, but I do know appearances can be decieving. My only point I was trying to make about getting Diesel is that I really feel that he and other pups like him shouldn't be punished for stupid breeders. But I never would have paid any significant amount of money to a "back yard breeder".

2) I do appreciate the clarrification about "American" and "German". I didn't mean it litterally about calling people an idiot. I was just venting about people who think they know stuff when they really don't. I have never "called" anybody on it when they say they have a German Rott, and still won't, I just wanted to be more informed, so I don't look like the idiot when people ask me.

3) About saying people aren't really breeders, I do know the definition is quite clear. But as with humans anyone can be a parent, but it takes a responsible, loving, caring, nuturing individual to be a "mom" or "dad". I feel the same with breeders. If you don't do it "right" your not a real breeder, you are just someone who knows what a mal and female can do! Now my mother was not a "back yard breeder" She stopped when I was about 8 yrs old so I don't remember much, but I do know that we had one show dog and at least one top quaility show dog coming from the last litter she had. Also, every pup I remember her having was spoke for long before it was born. The lady that runs Sheltie recue in our area would often recommend my mother for those wanting a puppy. Sorry if I seem a little defensive, but I don't want people to think my mother was a bad breeder just because I am uniformed and may have paid the wrong kind of person for a puppy.

Once again thanks for the input, and yes I do feel a little bad for paying anything at all for Diesel, but I just couldn't let him go tho those nasty people.

James

[TrinityRun]

[quote]Originally posted by Gottaluvdapuppy
[b]1) The "breeder" had an accidental litter, and the puppies were not papered, and she was just trying to get rid of them, first come first serve. I know that its not the best thing, but I really feel that if any true dog lover would have seen the family that wanted to take Diesel home, that they would have got him then too. The parents both "seemed" well tempered and healthy, but I do know appearances can be decieving. My only point I was trying to make about getting Diesel is that I really feel that he and other pups like him shouldn't be punished for stupid breeders. But I never would have paid any significant amount of money to a "back yard breeder".>

Of course the puppies and their new owners are often the ones who suffer. But to make anything "easy" for the breeder, be it taking free pups off their hands early or for paying money, it entices them to repeat the practice. What they need is to sit on a litter until they are 4, 5, 6 mo old. Allow them to have tremendous trouble placing the puppies - enough so the puppies begin to drain THEIR pocketbook. That is what makes an impression on these kinds of breeders. If people just come along and pick up their free puppies, it's easy for them not to spay the bitch. See what I mean?

<2) I do appreciate the clarrification about "American" and "German". I didn't mean it litterally about calling people an idiot. I was just venting about people who think they know stuff when they really don't. I have never "called" anybody on it when they say they have a German Rott, and still won't, I just wanted to be more informed, so I don't look like the idiot when people ask me.>

As a Rottweiler owner, you now have a responsibility to educate people every chance you get and to lead by example. You have an obligation to obedience train and learn as much as you can so you may help dispel the myths that have surrounded this breed for over a decade.

<) About saying people aren't really breeders, I do know the definition is quite clear. .......Sorry if I seem a little defensive, but I don't want people to think my mother was a bad breeder just because I am uniformed and may have paid the wrong kind of person for a puppy.>

Relax. You did not come across as defensive and no one is judging your mother's breeding practices.

I understand why you felt you needed to get your puppy and you are clearly pleased about taking him. That's fine. Enjoy and love him, train him.

Finally, I'd like to see you broaden your scope of thinking regarding your reasons for bringing him home, learn from it and help others to. Understand how your actions speak louder than words and be careful of the message you send and to whom you are sending it.

;)

[AngelBunny]

"Of course the puppies and their new owners are often the ones who suffer. But to make anything "easy" for the breeder, be it taking free pups off their hands early or for paying money, it entices them to repeat the practice. What they need is to sit on a litter until they are 4, 5, 6 mo old. Allow them to have tremendous trouble placing the puppies - enough so the puppies begin to drain THEIR pocketbook. That is what makes an impression on these kinds of breeders. If people just come along and pick up their free puppies, it's easy for them not to spay the bitch."

TrinityRun hit the nail on the head.

What my rescue group does when contacted by such people is tell them we'll take all the puppies and help them spay the bitch, btw.

[Carina43]

Originally posted by Gottaluvdapuppy
but I really feel that if any true dog lover would have seen the family that wanted to take Diesel home, that they would have got him then too.
Once again thanks for the input, and yes I do feel a little bad for paying anything at all for Diesel, but I just couldn't let him go tho those nasty people.

James

Hi James...I might have done the same thing, in your shoes...if I saw a pup was about to go to someone unsuitable. One thing to write about it...another to walk away when faced with an adorable puppy!

Enjoy Diesel...these forums are a great place for learning as you go through his puppyhood. Two of my Rotties are backyard breeder dogs (I got as adults, not from the "breeder") - they might not win beauty contests, but they're great dogs all the same.

[2rottiesmom]

I understand completely what you are saying. My neighbor just had an accidental litter of rotties and I am doing everything in my power to help them. The female will be spayed as soon as the puppies are completly weaned. I am handling all of the people that are coming to take them. I am interviewing them and I have created puppy packets for them to take home. Granted these pups are Backyard Bred but I want them to have a chance wherever they are going. Part of the contract that we are having them sign is a note that says the dogs are to come back to us if they can no longer be taken care of. I told my neighbors that I will help if we end up with some of them back but that I can't see having these innocent dogs being put to sleep because of their mistake. We are also offering part of the purchase price back if the dogs are spayed or neutered within a year. I am trying to do everything I can to be sure they don't end up in bad situations. Sometimes stuff happens and we just have to make the best of it.

Rachel