getting my deposit back!

[italy]

Hello everyone, i'm having problems getting my deposit back from a breeder that i have been dealing with the past year.....

To sum this up as best i can without going too deep into specifics, i thought i would give you all (especially other breeders) on this forum a little taste of what i've been going thru....

About a year ago i put down a $500 deposit on a breeding that was to happen late Sep. 2001/early Oct.2001... The breeder owned both the stud dog and the bitch.. Due to reasons unknown, the female came up dry in Dec. and i was told by the breeder that he was going to have her checked by the vet, although i never got any answers as to what happened....!

Although NOW i know i should have ASKED for my deposit back at that very moment, BUT i DIDN'T and well here is where everthing goes down hill!!

Instead of me asking for my deposit back OR this breeder offering me my deposit back, he tells me of another breeding he is doing with his other bitch, which is due very soon after the breeding that was supposed to happen..... WELL, the female aborted her litter a few weeks before she was due....!!! All i was told was that she had an infection of some sort.....no specifics...!

SOOOOooo, now i'm at a crossroads..... I really want a pup from this particular stud dog, but so far no luck!!!! Again, i should have asked for my money back or been offered it back, but he never offered and i really had my mind set on a pup from this male!!!!

After this latest mishap, the breeder tells me that he has bred this stud dog to several bitches at a friend's kennel in another state, and that if i really wanted a pup, he would give me one of his picks from of one these litters...

I agree of course, because i REALLY want a pup now, especially since i've been waiting almost 6 months and been thru two litters that never happened!!! So i wait another couple of months for these litters to be born and as each female has her litter i eagerly await the news of my pick!!!!!

(The downhill grade gets steeper now!!!!) The first litter only has ONE male, which is what i wanted and i'm briefly offered it, but then i'm told that i can't have this male because my breeder's friend (the kennel that owns the bitches) wants to keep this lil boy for themselves.......! I was dissapointed, but could somewhat understand.... Okay, next up, the second litter comes and i'm told that yes there is more than one male BUT, THEY HAVE PRETTY SERIOUS OVERBITES!!!! My breeder tells me that his friend has already sold them anyway as pet quality and that he wouldn't have felt right selling me one of them because i was looking for a nice show quality male...., which i was but i feel that i really didn't have a say in the matter to begin with, so i'm getting a little confused and a bit frustrated as you may have gathered by now!!

AGAIN.....NO OFFERING OF MY DEPOSIT BACK!!!!
And I, being the novice show puppy buyer, don't ask for it... I'm still clinging to this sad dream of mine to own a pup from this STUD DOG OF ALL STUD DOGS...(according to this breeder of course....)

Sensing my frustration, this breeder decides to bestow upon me the greatest gift any breeder could give to their novice, wet behind the ears, show quality puppy buying, from the BESTEST STUD DOG EVER, for the first time mind you, buyer!!!!!
.....!
HIS PERSONAL PICK!!!!!
.....!!!
I can't believe it!!, I'm actually going to get a pup!!!!!
And it's only been 8 months and 4 litters, since i started this journey!!!!

I get sent a pic of my new boy and i'm so excited i email my breeders friend to tell me what he's like and to introduce myself to them as well, since i'm the proud new owner of this fine young show quality male!!!!! YEAHHH!!!
.......
BUT WAIT!!!!! The very next morning after i emailed my breeder's friend's to ask for info and updated pic's of my boy, i get an email from.........., MY BREEDER!!!!!!!
He tells me that he had talked to his friends out there and that they had mentioned that i had emailed them about my new lil guy and that he has decided that maybe he was going to keep this pick for HIMSELF!!!!!! Not only that but then i'm told that the pup i wanted a few litters back...., ya know, the one with the serious overbite, is looking a whole lot better now and that i might want to reconsider taking that one......IF I WANT TOO!!!!! Of Course i never really get a say in this either!!!!!!!!!!!!

I HAVE NOW OFFICIALLY SNAPPED!!!!!!

This was finally IT!!! I had emailed my whole family with pics of this wonderful pup, that up until last night was MINE.....FINALLY!!!
BUT NO!

So, to shorten up this rottie soap opera, i told my breeder that i wanted this last pup i was offered and that if he was going to keep it, then i was going to go elsewhere (something i should have done a long time ago)!!!!! He told me he wasn't sure if this pup was right for me and that he still may want i for himself, so i ended our business and asked for my deposit back!!!

(here's where i need your expertise in advice folks!!)

NO DICE!!! NO DINERO!! NADA, NOTHING!!!!
Read my contract, he says!!! The contract was for a pup from the VERY, VERY FIRST LITTER, ya remember, the one that came up dry last year!!!!!!!!!! And low and behold........, guess what???? He's breeding her in the next few weeks, again!!!!
....
It's true my fellow forum readers...., my contract does state this, and to make it worse......., he didn't put a date next to the whelping information, something he said he had his lawyer do intentionally for instances like this, i was told!!! So now i have to wait for another litter out of this bitch, and if by chance she doesn't concieve THIS TIME, then i can have my $500 back!!!

Well, as you may have figured out, even though this was my chance to own a pup from SUPER STUD MUFFIN, I DECLINED!!!!
I asked for my money back, and to this day, have not seen a penny in the mail!!!!
How could i own a pup from this man!!!!??? And i won't even go into the stipulations's he had if i was to own his flippin' stud PICK!
(Title's, Breeding right's etc...)

So i ask you breeder's out there in rottweiler.net land..., tell me what my legal rights are????? IF ANY!! Tell me i deserved better!!....., Tell me i deserved what was coming!! ANYTHING!!!!

Seriously folks......, WHAT SHOULD I DO????

Thanks for your time...... I'm glad you read this whole thing!!:)

[rottcrazed]

OMG, I thought I was the only one to deal with flipped out breeders. Welcome to the club (hee hee). Honestly, I have no idea was your legal rights are, if any. Does your contract say that the deposit is NON-REFUNDABLE in those words? I would think that those would be the only words actually causing you to lose your deposit entirely. But, what do I know?!

Kristi :(

[italy]

Just to let you all know, i did go to another breeder, and i got a wonderful lil pup!!!!! Rocco!!!! My new lil boy!!

THANKS to my NEW BREEDER!!!!:)
Ya know who you are!!!:D

As soon as i figure this flippin' "Post a Pic Process" i'll show you guys my pride and joy!!!

Thanks Again!!

[italy]

So i'm not alone!!:)

As soon as i dig up this contract, i'll give you the exact wordage
rottcrazed.....
But, yes it did say this in some shape or form....


:(

[italy]

Here is the exact wordage in my contract...

"A non-refundable deposit of $500 is required to hold your choice:
If "WE" are unable to full fill what you have asked for, then the whole $500 will be refunded....unless agreed to by both parties..

If my thinking is correct, they "fullfilled" what i WANTED but then
they took my "fullfillment" AWAY!!!!!

[italy]

SEVERAL TIMES, NO LESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Orville Story]

You will win this one hands down in small claims. If your version is as exactly as told here. The breeder may have a different one. It boils down to the court being able to determine that the breeder could not full fill what you asked for.

There are a lot of factors in this case. Over and over you agree to wait. You do so by not asking for your deposit back time after time. It is not up to them to offer the deposit back, that is your responsibility to ask for it. But at this point in your story things change; "So, to shorten up this rottie soap opera, i told my breeder that i wanted this last pup i was offered and that if he was going to keep it, then i was going to go elsewhere (something i should have done a long time ago)!!!!! He told me he wasn't sure if this pup was right for me and that he still may want i
for himself, so i ended our business and asked for my deposit back!!! "

At this point the breeder has to either furnish you the pup, or return the deposit. The breeder may truly be concerned that the pup will not make a good fit, but in doing so the breeder is making a decission that effects his ability to furnish you a pup. The breeder will contend that eventualy they would be able to full fill your request. In the you asked for a particular pup, and the breeder could have furnished this pup. The breeder choose not to do so, and maybe for a valid reason. However, by not furnishing this pup according to the contract as you state here the deposit should be sent back.

If you can prove the facts as you have stated them here you will win in court.

[italy]

Thanks for your reply Orville!

Although i understand the process of fitting the proper puppy with the proper owner, my main beef with this breeder was that he had already offered me these pups, especially the last one which was his so called "personal pick" and THEN tells me that it may not be THE RIGHT pup for me, ... I explained to him exactly what i was looking for in a pup...

I guess i just would have liked a little helpful direction on his part....

I understand that i should have asked for my deposit after the first incident, but it seems he took advantage of the fact i was new to buying a pup, and that i REALLY liked his Stud dog!!
So the longer he kept my search for a pup going, the longer he held on to my $500 deposit...

Unfortunately, i think i was in a competition with the breeder himself, in finding a really nice male puppy from these litters....
I didn't realize it a the time but i think the nicer the pups were the more reasons he gave as to why they were not right for me!!

His main issue was that i became IMPATIENT!! Can you believe it!!
I only waited almost 10 months and thru 5 litters for a pup from this guy! Then he says that i backed out because i didn't like the idea of him possibly keeping his "personal pick" that he OFFERED ME to begin with!!! He wanted me to take the pup with the so called overbite problem, which he says corrected itself, but by this time i no longer believed what he was telling me, or wait for the next breeding to the FIRST female, that i originally had been waiting on....

I have talked to him within the last couple weeks to see if this first female actually concieved again, and guess what...... She was unsuccessful AGAIN in this breeding.... He says he emailed me about the problem, but i never recieved any news since i last spoke to him, when i told him i was going to another breeder...!!

He says that he has her at the vet's for a check up and that if she has problems THE NEXT TIME, that he will give me my $500 back...

I haven't heard from him yet!!

How many times do i have to wait??? Unless this poor female is seriously ill and unable to concieve, then eventually she WILL have a litter of pup's, and then he will get to keep my money because he came thru on the deal as far as her having been bred FINALLY!!! Then he can say that I didn't wait and that i backed out of the contract....

This of course is what he is banking on!!! But like i said, i haven't heard a word from him, and i just don't think i have to wait any longer!!!

I'm glad you feel i have a chance in small claims Orville...
I may have to resort to this measure....!

[italy]

Sorry for the long winded venting, everyone!!!
:)

[Orville Story]

Originally posted by italy
Thanks for your reply Orville!

I guess i just would have liked a little helpful direction on his part....

I understand that i should have asked for my deposit after the first incident, but it seems he took advantage of the fact i was new to buying a pup, and that i REALLY liked his Stud dog!!
So the longer he kept my search for a pup going, the longer he held on to my $500 deposit...


I'm glad you feel i have a chance in small claims Orville...
I may have to resort to this measure....!

I don't believe that he took advantage of you. This is a process which can take time. However, at some point he has to produce. He had the opportunity to produce with a certain pup, but choose not to. Until that time he was attempting to fulfill the contract.

It is no longer a disagreement over the time table, but a disagreement over that puppy. Once he offered it to you, he was legally bound to produce that puppy. He broke the contract by not producing that puppy. That is why you will win.

Had he never offered you a certain puppy, then your grounds to break the contract would have to do with a reasonable time. Even though a time period is not mentioned, the court will determine what a reasonable amount of time would be. However, in this case you are not asking to break the contract, you are showing that the breeder has already broke the contract.

This is not to say that the breeder is taking advantage in any way. The two of you have difference of opinion concerning the contract. In this case I bet that you win. But to win you will have to go to court, because I am sure that the breeder believes he is right. I am sure that he believes his contract allows him the time to a puppy under these situations. You can't fault the breeder for his opinion here, you just have to prove him wrong.

[babydungeon]

i'm fairly sure orville is a very intelligent person. however, to go a little deeper there is someone else you may want to ask. this may make them blow their lid but babyray has gone through something similar and saw a lawyer about it. i would suggest sending babyray a pm about this.-kevin

[italy]

Thanks again Orville! It's a sad situation to be in, but here i am!!
Part of me wants to fight it till the end, and another part of me doesn't want to spend another penny on this ordeal or any more of my time!! Plus, i'm in Colorado and the breeder is in Utah, so i don't know how that effects thing's?? Nonetheless, i appreciate your insight and replies!! I'll let you know how things progress..
AND
Thank you Babydungeon, for your suggestion!! I just may do that!!

[roccorottie]

Glad this worked out for you (sort of)...enjoy your new boy and LOVE the name...

Our boy Rocco is now almost 6 mos old...you can see some of him on the site in my signature.

:) Enjoy him!

wonder how many Rotties named Rocco are on these forums??

[rottmommie]

I WOULD definatley fight this to the end, as the wordage is perfectly clear in your contract, any idiot can intrepret it, it shouldnt even TAKE a judge.
Get him for the 500 bucks plus your court costs. Prove the point.
Perhaps it will teach him not to jack people around !
dont they still have 'animal court " on TV?
hehe

[italy]

Hey Roccorottie, i'm glad to see some fellow Rocco pup's out there!! I went to your webpage and checked out your boy...
He's a great lookin' lil fella!!!!

My Rocco is almost 4 months now...

How's your boy doing?? How did you come up with YOUR Rocco's name????:)

.........


As far as "Animal Court", Rottmommie, i'm thinkin' i'll just go straight to the "Pet Phsychic Lady" and have her reveal the mental anguish this breeder has been puttin' me thru and the effect it's having on my pet's lives!!!!:D

Thanks for the replies you two!!