Perspective on Rottweilers

[Lady B]

Having just received this from a very close friend this is well worth sharing.
"Please read, learn, and keep it to pass along to others (just be sure to give Angeli credit) that just don't seem to get it - dogs are NOT people in fur coats. AND no dog EVER does anything for no reason!

++++++++++++
I see people posting, wondering how "we" can prevent serious, antisocial incidents involving our Rottweilers.

I see people posting it's the owner's fault. Never blame the dog. Put the dog down. Keep them locked up. Keep the kids locked up. The media picks on our breed. Our breed is built to kill people. Our breed should be this - our breed should be that.

There are three key points that put most every situation into
perspective.

1) Dogs behave like dogs
2) Humans do not understand dog behavior
3) Not every dog or every breed is right for every person/family/situation

Someone posted that dogs do not have morals/ethics. Correct because those are human values. However, canines have a very strict code of conduct with appropriate reactions to every action.

Humans are for the most part clueless regarding canine code of conduct. An inablity to communicate effectively with their dog is the overwhelming cause for almost every canine "behavior" problem. It's really a human problem, not the dog's.

Rottweilers should not be owned by the general public. Rottweilers should go back to being a "rare" breed, with the knowledge that there are something like 4 million dogs in this country the term "rare" is subjective.

I read or heard someone explain that bringing a puppy into your home is as much of a cultural shock to the puppy as it would be to a human baby being given to a wolf pack to raise. The food is different, the language is different, the rules are different. This person correctly stated that we expect miracles from dogs.

In the canine world infants and young adults are protected members of the group. However, they must adhere to the ranking of the family and in that respect they are at the bottom of the ladder. A distinct population of domestic dogs view infants and children in the same manner as if they were juvenile canines.

In the canine world communication is acheived via a complex combination of sound, facial expressions, body expressions and scent. The combination is variable to the unique individual situations - by the minute, hour, day, week, etc that a canine may encounter or engage in. If an initial communication is ignored, a series of graduated additional behaviors unfold.

Putting the two together in the context of living with humans -----

An adult or child attempts to do something a dog does not think they should do. The dog warns the person/child with facial expression and body posture. The adult/child does not notice and persists with their intentions. The dog warns the adult/child again, this time with more severe facial and body expression, possibly even vocally. The adult/child still does not notice and continues on. The dog - having failed to make his/her point politely, reacts in a natural canine manner by using physical confrontation. The adult/child does not possess the fur/skin of
a canine and injures easily. Additionally the adult/child does not know how to respond to this "surprising" behavior and does so inappropriately to the canine code of conduct.

A chain reaction occurs. If there is more than one dog involved, the reaction is more marked as it is normal pack behavior for multiple members to "pick on" and discipline other pack members. And in the case of foreign intrusion it is normal for extreme aggression to be shown by multiple pack members.

This scenario accounts for a good chunk of "problem" dog incidents. Another chunk occur because of the undying belief of many humans that dogs are stuffed animals. And sometimes the two chunks coincide.

And finally, with most all breeds there are segments of the breed's population that accept human behavior without question(level 1). And a segment that deals with it but isn't too sure(level 2). And another segment that really has a problem co-existing with most stupid human behaviors(level 3).

Of those three levels, the first level is purely genetic. You really
can't make these dogs think different of humans than they do. The other two levels are partly made and partly genetic. You can make a level 2 dog into a level 3 dog and vice versa. You can make a level 2 dog into a passing level 1 dog. Level 1 dogs with extreme abuse and neglect can become level 2 dogs if certain taught "triggers" are touched.

The vast majority of the guarding breeds are level 2 and level 3. Only a small percentage are level 1. This only stands to reason as the definition of a guarding breed is one that guards against outside intrusion. Either to the home, to the flock or to an object.

If your life and family needs demand a level 1 dog - please do not get a breed of dog that rarely produces one or is even suppposed to be one.

Common sense. If you want a quiet dog - don't get a barky breed. If you have white clothes and white carpets - don't get a dark colored breed. If you like to stay inside and watch tv - don't get a breed that needs to be outside and active. If you want a dog that stays by your side - don't get a breed that is bred to be followed on horseback.

We can address the public issues, public perception and public problem by breeding Rottweilers intelligently. To be Rottweilers, to be placed in homes suitable for Rottweilers. Which greatly decreases the number of home options. Which decreases the number of Rottweilers bred. Which gets our breed out of the press.

We can educate ourselves, our family and friends about canine behavior. We can get our puppies out and about, here and there, as much as humanly possible before they are 8 months old. We can teach our puppie manners, rules and abide by those rules ourselves.

We can always observe, watch over and listen to our dogs. In their language.

Dogs are dogs. It's what we like about them, it's what we should respect and expect about them."

Angeli Modjeski
Email address deleted due to Rottweiler.Net does not allow the postings of personal email addresses. Justice

[TrishB]

Wonderful Post!! :D

In my previous career within the veterinary industry, I offered "Breed Selection Consultations". I would have them fill out a questionairre and sit and chat with the family (the whole family).

I would explain the importance of understanding the breed that they got, and the type of lifestyles they lead (honestly).

Someone who was a couch potato wanted a Siberian Husky - WRONG! Unless they wanted to lose their prized couch of course!! ;)

A super-outdoorsey couple wanted a little bichon. NOT!! Unless they wanted to take the dog to the groomers every Monday to take out the burrs and muck the dog had in it's coat.

It isn't fair to believe that just because it's 'cute' that it will fit into your family.

Here are some questions people should answer before getting ANY breed of dog. Your answers will tell you if the breed you are interested in will fit into your lifestyle.

1) Do you want a small ( >20lbs), medium (20 > 45lbs) or large breed (45lbs<80lbs) Giant (80lbs <)?

2) Do you like grooming?

3) How active are you on a regular basis (weekdays would be best - weekends are misleading)?

4) Would you want to take the dog with you where ever you go?

5) What is your #1 reason for wanting a dog?

6) Are there children in your household? Please include ages.

7) Will the dog be exposed to many people on a regular basis?

8) What other experiences have you had with dogs (ownership)? What about the other members of your household?

9) Are you prepared for the expense of having a dog? The first year of a puppy's life is the most expensive.

10) Are there other animals in the household?

11) What are some things that you DON'T like about other people's dogs?

12) Are you ready to commit time and effort to finding the dog?

13) Have you ever trained a puppy or a full grown dog before?

14) Are there specific activities you'd like to have your dog involved in? (frisbee, fly ball, hiking, swimming, etc.)

15) Where would the dog live? In the house? Apartment? Only in the yard?

16) If you have a preference for a particular breed, have you done any research?

17) Are you prepared to take your puppy to obedience training? Are you aware that this may continue well into adulthood?

The dog breeds of today have been bred to be a certain way for years, some hundreds, some thousands of years! It isn't fair to ask them to be anything than what they are. Be honest with yourself - for both your dogs and your own sake.

[DixieGrl113]

What a great thread. This is of course, assuming that the prosepective owners/adopters, are going to be honest about their situation and with themselves. There are always going to be those people who just HAVE to have a Rottie because they are SOOOOOOOO cool, and they aren't interested in doing it the right way. One can only hope they stumble across this site and/or thread. Great post Trish and Lady. Thanks for sharing.

[SASSY'S DAD]

"We can address the public issues, public perception and public problem by breeding Rottweilers intelligently. To be Rottweilers, to be placed in homes suitable for Rottweilers. Which greatly decreases the number of home options. Which decreases the number of Rottweilers bred. Which gets our breed out of the press."



I like the thread alot of good information but this really concerns me in that we come to a question.."Who"

a breeder?a vetrinarian?a police officer?a akc specialist? and with that I will say this first they say what type of dog I can own then how many children I can have then what type of car I can buy and what flavor food I can eat and eventually will they arrange a wife for me?I just don't care for the idea that other people can choose if I can have my dogs.The state of New Hampshire was trying to pass a bill that resembled that it was to make everyone with a "Dangerous breed dog ie. pitbull,rottweiler,doberman pincher,german sheperds ect. ect." register them and be evaluated if they are suitable to have them.And I will add that anyone ever convicted of a felony crime would be deemed as not acceptable to have them.Sorry but I have to say that I don't want to be told what kind of dog I can have not by the above mentioned people or anyone else..:(

[ladawn]

I like the consultation idea that TrishB mentioned. I too hesitate a little about who decides whom is worthy or what kind of dog. HOWEVER, the more I learn and read about rotties, the more concerned I get with the people I meet on the street who have them. Clueless and worse than that: not interested in getting a clue. I can deal with anyone who is willing to learn. Get ready to be really frightened--I feel the same way about kids. I think every prospective parent--fur kid and human kid, should have to sit through some kind of class that at least provides you with resources to get information you may need later on. At the most, some kind of parent effectiveness training course. Back to dogs though, as stated above, those who just "want a Rott" will not be deterred by a session, but those who don't know better and sit through a session with questions such as TrishB posted, may start thinking and leave with a more suitable match.

[Gatsby]

I am in complete agreement that people should do a lot of research before getting a dog. It's good to know what type of dog you want (working, toy, hunting, sight dog, etc). Of course, lots of people end up with mixed breeds at the pound and while you can guess at their breed mix, you can't tell all that much about them until you get them home.

The questions I would want people to ask themselves are less about what specific breed they want and more about how devoted they think they can be. For example, when you have kids, you don't get to decide the gender or the temperment. You just have to be prepared to have your life center around your kid and deal with what comes. I think it's the same with dogs. If you're thinking about getting a dog, but you travel a lot and you don't like to go out in bad weather and you work 12 hours a day, maybe you should get a cat. If you get in fights all the time at the local bar and you want a dog to attack people who annoy you, maybe you need a therapist, not a dog. If you love dogs and you plan to do lots of training and endure fur in your house and go camping with your dog instead of going to Europe, then I think your options are pretty wide open as far as breeds go.

Of course, I'm probably biased because I'm one of those people who didn't do any research before I got a dog. I went to the local shelter wanting a smallish dog; you know, maybe a Corgi. I didn't know then that the chance of getting a Corgi at the pound was about as good as winning big in Las Vegas. :) Knowing nothing about Rottweilers, I fell in love with Bonnie. I'd like to think that was because her beautiful personality showed when I took her out to the corral to play with her. But who knows what it was. I said to myself, "A Rottweiler? Are you out of your mind!? Go home before you say yes!" So I rushed out to my car and sat and cried for a while and then I went back into the shelter and got her.

The bottom line is that I'm one of those psycho animal lovers who is willing to rearrange my whole life for my dog. I now have a whole shelf of Rottweiler books. I've learned to be a strong leader. My little house has crates everywhere. I started a dog business. Basically, getting a Rottweiler led me to devote my life to dogs and dog culture.

I think we need to address whether people are dog people, not whether they are Rottweiler people or Corgi people. A true dog lover will sort that part out themselves.

[Lady B]

In my perspective and from personal experience I truly believe it is the breeders' responsibility to sort this situation out. Of course this places another onus on the subject. If all breeders follow a strict COE there are many peope who would not make the cut no matter how much they truly wanted a Rottie in their life or even if they had the means. But a true conformationally and temperamentally correct Rottie is simply not for just anybody. Unfortunately there are many breeders who are not COE. And that is where my experience started. With a puppy mill breeder.

Lady-B came to us second hand and because I wanted to know everything about her, her lines and where she came from I took the time to go there. I was shocked and appalled at what I saw there. The dogs were kept in 30x30 pens on a hill with one dog house for two dogs (an adult and a juvenile). There was no shade and the only shelter was the dog house. There was fresh straw in these pens but still it was pretty muddy most of time, being in the Pacific NW and hotter than hades in the summer. He ran this like a business but did have a large staff to socialize the dogs. But none the less it was a business and he did not ever pose any questions to a potential buyer. He marketed these dogs just like a fast pitch salesman would. There were rows upon rows of Rotties. It was clean but that is all about I will say for it.
Over the years I have encountered many Rotts from this "place" and I can always tell where they came from without asking.

Lady does not represent the Rottie breed by any stretch. She is an inch above the male standard. And we both have suffered through hypo-thyroidism (a genetic issue) and two blown out ACL's (repaired) and chronic allergies. Temperamentally, Lady would have been put down for some of her behaviors by a breeder. But I worked through those issues and she is a wonderful, loving, well socalized big girl today. Lady today looks like a cross between a GSD and a Rottie with head muscle atrophy. I have spent thousands for her care and it has been suggested to me by other folks in rescue that I should have put her down a long time ago. Well, that is not what I am about. I made a commitment to her and that commitment will remain until Lady no longer has any quality of life left.

My male, Baron, came to me as a wreck and he had been used for Pit Bull baiting. And that is a very long, heart-breaking story. He is a good dog today but it took all of my heart and determination to bring him around.

The point of all this? If all the Rottie breeders had adhered to a COE the breed would not be in the situation it is today. True, many of us would never, ever have come to enjoy life with this wonderful breed. Conversely, there are many out there who should never, ever have any form of life in their care, much less a rock! I have seen more than I want to just in this region alone. And the awful story is repeated across our nation. Because the situation is so dire I have made a commitment to only rescue.

None of us like being dictated to nor questioned as to our intent when we are about to put money down for a dog. But truly, the breed would not be where it is today if a COE had been strictly adhered to when selling the breed. I feel it would have been far better if the Rottweiler breed had been kept exclusive and rare. Yes, many of us on this board would never have come to know just how special they are but in retrospect the breed would never have come to be so maligned and feared by the media and general public. Nor would it have ever come to such awful uses as my Baron.

[TrishB]

The simple fact of the matter is, the people who will go to their vet to ask questions, take the time to research and review different breeds, find the right breeder, wait for the perfect puppy - are not the people we need to be concerned about (Group A)

It's the people who wake up one morning and go to the pet store to 'look at what they've got' or look in the paper and say 'Hey! A puppy, what a good idea.' THOSE are the people we have to worry about. (Group B)

The breeders who research the breed, painstakingly track down a foundation bitch with lines they respect, test for all of the genetic problems, tour their bitch around the show or obedience circuit, find the perfect match for their female, interrogate potential puppy owners, ensure the perfect match of puppy and owner - these are not the people we need to worry about. (Group 1)

It's the people like those that had the 6 dogs, locked in a house that were beating the dogs, breeding them for profit and left them unattended to maul that poor little girl on Valentine's Day. It's the people that have 'a female' and the guy down the street that have 'a male', how about we get them to have puppies?! Those BYB who breed females on their first or second heats, never socialize the dogs and will sell a pup to anyone with a couple of hundred dollar bills in their pocket. THOSE are the people we have to worry about. (Group 2)

We've all said it before, in various threads, Education is key.

Group A + Group 2 = No puppy. They'll realise this isn't the puppy or the breeder they want.

Group A + Group 1 = Great Puppy in a Great Home

Group B + Group 1 = No puppy. They'll realise this isn't the type of family that is right for one of their babies.

Group B + Group 2 = Disaster.

If we can stop the last equation from happening, ALL breeds will be better off.

But there is an onus on the breeder in the Group B + Group 1 situation. The breeder needs to inform the family why they're being turned down, why they're not ready, what they need to change, how they can become the perfect family for a puppy. Education is key. If they can't get a pup from you, they'll just get a puppy from somewhere else.

Please help these people to learn and become good dog owners. Give them the information they need so that they don't go to the Group 2's. This is the only way to permanently take the Group 2’s out of business.