How Can We Stop Attacks?

[moondog]

Originally posted by Soapie&Buddy'sMom
I would suggest that if you are going to take the responsibility to bring more dogs into this world, then TAKE the RESPONSIBILITY. It's like bringing children into the world. You, as parent, have responsibility for their acts up to a certain age. If your child does something terrible you will be held at least partially responsible. Same with dogs.

Nice try, but bad comparison. Unlike parents and children, breeder's do not retain direct supervision of puppies as they grow up, OWNER'S DO. The OWNER is the parent, if you want to use that analogy, and if you agree with that, then I'll agree with you. ;)

[ILoveRotts]

Unfortunately, as with all laws --- only the law abiding will follow. And they are not typically the problem.



And I'm sure the Korean comment wasn't meant to be offensive but let's not judge other cultures. Remember there are cultures that think we are despicable for eating cows.:)

[Soapie&Buddy'sMom]

Originally posted by moondog


Nice try, but bad comparison. Unlike parents and children, breeder's do not retain direct supervision of puppies as they grow up, OWNER'S DO. The OWNER is the parent, if you want to use that analogy, and if you agree with that, then I'll agree with you. ;)

The owner didn't bring the dog into the world - the breeder did. That was my analogy. You can make it analogous to whatever you want, but I'll stay with *my* original analogy. ;)
This might help:
You have a child. The child grows up, but yet continues to be dependent. You decide to put the child into an institution for care. Yes, the institution is partly responsible for the child at that point, but you are ultimately responsible. It was at your behest that the child was brought into the world. The child is never responsible.
You breed a dog. The puppies grow up, but yet continue to be dependent on you. You decide to put the puppies up for sale. Yes, the buyer/owner is partly responsible for the dog at that point, but you are ultimately responsible. It was at your behest that the dog was brought into the world. The dog is never responsible.

Just an analogy, and of course there are a hundred variations. My analogy is used to show how breeders should remain responsible for their dogs.

[MybabyZeus]

These all seem to be good ideas to me. Maybe if we can combine them it will take us somewhere.

Step 1-Strict requirements for breeders/akc and other registrations orgs

Step 2-Test new owners

Step 3-Educate existing owners

etc.....

These are all really good ideas.
Great post TrishB:)

[moondog]

Ok then, I don't agree, I take it back :D Since you're using children for your analogy, try this: If a baby is given up for adoption and you, by virtue of adopting that child, have assumed direct supervision and responsibility for that child, then the child grows up and bites somebody, are the birthparents liable? Don't think so. ;)

[Homerhomer]

I am not sure how dog onwerhip license would start or influance black market. The biggest issue with that law would be enforcement of it, but it could be done. The least it would do it would probably stop petshop chains from selling (or decrease the sales) of puppies. They, since they are reputable businesses ahem ahem, would have to follow the rules.

AKC should do all kind of testing, but since they are the once opposing Puppy Protection Act and also suggesting that breeding 7 months old puppy is just fine, I doubt they will do anything that will decrease their bottom line.

[MybabyZeus]

Originally posted by Homerhomer
I am not sure how dog onwerhip license would start or influance black market. The biggest issue with that law would be enforcement of it, but it could be done. The least it would do it would probably stop petshop chains from selling (or decrease the sales) of puppies. They, since they are reputable businesses ahem ahem, would have to follow the rules.

AKC should do all kind of testing, but since they are the once opposing Puppy Protection Act and also suggesting that breeding 7 months old puppy is just fine, I doubt they will do anything that will decrease their bottom line.

Yeah thats true. At least it will cut down on mass production for pet stores. We all know how reputable they are:(

Your right about the AKC. We can try but our efforts will most likley be in vain:(

[austin]

I still think the problem lies with how these dogs are raised and trained. Most attacks I read about take place outside and there is usually some mention of mistreatment, a "pack" of dogs, someone leaving a puppy alone with a small child, or something along those lines. These are not usually the dogs we read about in this forum, who live in a home with caring owners who are training them properly and giving them an appropriate level of attention for what they are... a member of our families. I truly berlieve that responsible ownership is the key.

[Homerhomer]

Originally posted by austin
I truly berlieve that responsible ownership is the key.

ABSOLUTELY, just do you make owners responsible? Education is the key but how do you educate people who don't want to be educated. One way of dealing with the problem could be making it harder for people like that to buy a dog.

[cinde33]

There are too many people who don't care. They don't believe animals have rights. It's like the people in Korea who eat dog. WE don't agree, but they see nothing wrong with it.

I was typing passionately and furiously. All I meant was that we all in this world hold different beliefs. I probably hold animals a lot more dear than the guy down the street from me who has his dog on a chain all day. I obviously value dogs in a different way than a lot of Koreans do.

I probably shouldn't have even typed this, it was one of those fleeting thoughts in my head to prove a point but I didn't do so very well I guess.

Pardon me if I offended anyone as I do respect cultural differences although I do not agree some of them. Sorry.

[TrishB]

Originally posted by MybabyZeus
These all seem to be good ideas to me. Maybe if we can combine them it will take us somewhere.

Step 1-Strict requirements for breeders/akc and other registration orgs

Step 2-Test new owners

Step 3-Educate existing owners

etc.....

These are all really good ideas.
Great post TrishB:)

Thanks MybabyZeus :D

It's true that what we're asking for here is HUGE! It is a daunting task. Even the longest of journeys must start but with one step.

I agree that we need to have breeders more involved in the responsibility of the dogs they bring on to the planet Earth. How about a questionnaire, which they must have, every pup owner submit to. A passing / acceptable questionnaire must accompany each registration application.

That way the breeder must ensure that the prospective owner has been adequately researched and has met the requirements. It is then a matter of record that the breeder has completed due diligence when finding a pup a home. THEN the owner accepts the responsibility for the life, health and conduct of said dog.

However, I don't believe that nurture (i.e. the breeder) overrides nature (i.e. the owner). The breeder only provides the solid foundation on which the owner will build and develop upon.

I also feel that ANY dog that has been reported for biting - it MUST be a requirement that the breeder of said dog is notified! Unless the owners take it upon themselves, often breeders do not even know of such incidents. How are they to correct their breeding program (if it was a result of nature over nurture) if they're never told about it?!

Personally, I think the 'reported bite' system needs a complete overhaul. People also need to get out of the habit of "Oh, he's never done THAT before! It's okay it's only a scratch...." How many times have we heard about a child being attacked and then hearing that the dog had bitten before but it was never reported?? Or that the dog had been known to be aggressive but nothing what done?? Or even worse, that this person was banned from having dogs before?? :(

So here's the list expansion:

Step 1 - Strict requirements for breeders, AKC, CKC and other registrations orgs

Step 2 - Test new owners (ideas for questions for this???)

Step 3 - Educate existing owners (ideas of how to do this???)

Step 4 - Ensure all bite reports filed filter to all involved parties

Step 5 - Enforce animal abuse / neglect penalties

[cinde33]

Step 2-Test new owners

I agree, but what would you test them on?

Anyone can clean up house, put on their Sunday best and say "We will be great dog owners!"

So, do you think it would have to become more involved than that?

See, I'm worried about the guy who KNOWS you don't leave a dog outside in 105 degree heat with no shade or water, (and he'll answer that in or on a test) but won't actually do it because he could care less and just wants the dog for protection. Or, it's his KIDS responsibility, and hey - if the dog dies, well, it's the kids fault.

Sad part is, there's a lot of people out there like that. :(

Step 3-Educate existing owners

I hear you on this one, I know that the CDC (Center for Disease Control) and the Humae Society of the US have campaigns on dog bite prevention. I wish there would be commercials or shows on tv. Sadly, its the best medium to to use nowadays!

[Deborah Reid]

I am so glad you started this post Trish!
These are some ideas I have always thought would help with BYB, puppy mills:
1. AKC put more authority in the hands of the breed parent clubs.
2. Breed parents clubs "warden" the breeding of the breed.
A. Dogs cannot be bred without passing minimum health tests (min. for rotties should be: OFA hips, OFA elbow, OFA cardiologist heart, CERF, thyroid normal)
B: Dog cannot produce registered puppies without undergoing a breed standard test, which incorporates a CGC type of temperament test and a critique. This test would not be expensive or extensive (we need to be realistic, we can't change the world in a day) This test can be "surpassed" if the dog attains a working/obedience title and conformation points, or passes any of the breed suitability tests done by the club.
C: Breeders can only produce x amount of litters per year, bitches can only have a max. of x (3 in my opinion) litters in a lifetime, dogs can only be used for breeding x amount of times in a given time period? (not sure how to regulate males :D )
3. Much MUCH bigger fees for registering a litter of puppies (this would discourage alot of the BYB and puppy mills if they started to feel a pinch from producing for profit).
4. All breeding dogs must be DNA registered prior to breeding.
5. Instead of spending so much money on advertising, get together with vets, humane societies, etc and make neutering/spaying free! (or very very cheap, like $10.00 to neuter and $20.00 to spay, but I think free is better).
6. Hold educational siminars in schools & colleges. You can reach a very broad population through kids and in colleges.
7. As mentioned before on the forum, be proactive! Hand out flyers at public events, put educational ads in the newspaper, hand out flyers one day a week at your local library, or in front of a store (I live in a small town, this is doable for me LOL), or in front of Petsmart (I think they would let you?), feed store, etc.
8. Try to reach as many people as you can, in a positive, educational way. If the neighbor down the street is "raising dogs" or "had a litter of pups", don't go down there with your guns blazing and pick a fight! Offer education with no strings attached, and if they are interested in being educated (you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink), offer more!
9. Target groups through education: Breeder, Buyer, Owner, Non-owner.
I think for Breeding, our biggest target should be AKC. They are the ones who set the rules for registration in this country. They go on "we are just a registry, well BS!!!! Fine, if they are "just a registry" turn more power, that they say they do not have!, over to our breed clubs to regulate the breeding of dogs!!!
(deep breath, deep breath)
Ok, stepping down off my podium :D

[WorkinDogz]

By volunteering. By education. By getting off your butt; put your TIME into it and HELP where it is needed.

At Shelters. With the Breed Rescues. In Schools.

Instead of bitching that people don't train their dogs (which most don't) how about VOLUNTEERING to teach an Obedience course through the Parks and Recreation Department of your Town.

You don't know enough about obedience to teach a course? Ok...then.......

Teach one on Responsible Dog Ownership. Make a pamphlet. Print them out and ask your Vet....the local Shelter.....to put one in their "New Puppy Packet" that they give out.

Talk to your Vet about doing an assembly in your local Elementary School. Invite a local trainer or Behavioralist to attend and teach the kids (who are the VICTIMS of most bites) what to do if they are attacked.....and what to do to PREVENT an attack. (Not all doggies are nice doggies...)

Volunteer at your Shelter. Don't give me the "it's sooooo hard to see those dogs suffer" thing.......those dogs ARE suffering with you or without you. Help MINIMIZE their suffering. Get involved FOR them.

Instead of complaining about your neighbors "uncontrollable" Lab......Invite them to TRAIN with you. Show them HOW.....show them what a pleasure a well trained dog is to be around.

You can make all the Laws.....rules.....regulations and pass any Legislation you want; but until EDUCATION happens; it won't do a bit of good.

You stop attacks.......right in your own backyard. In your own neighborhood. In your own City.

Get INVOLVED.

[SarasMom]

IMO, only 2 things will stop the attacks. The first is education. Like Workindogz and some others said, be proactive and take every opportunity to teach that you can. Get your good dog out in public. Show the good side of Rottweilers and teach the ignorant who don't have the first idea about responsible ownership. There are no shortcuts. It's one person at a time, frustrating I know. But when you pass on your knowledge, they in turn pass it on to more.

The second is responsibility. Have strict penalties for those who recklessly keep animals when their actions result in an attack. Send them to jail for some hard time and give huge fines. When someone gets drunk and then drives and kills someone, we don't ban the type car they are driving. Yes, the car did the actual damage, but it was the irresponsible person driving it that gets in trouble, not the company that made the car. Penalizing the breed for these attacks would be like holding GM responsible for drunk driving.

All the other proposals like licensing owners and making breeders liable sound good on paper, but in practicality won't work, IMO. Too many ways around it. No magic bullet here. It's grueling work, educating one person at a time. :)