I hope I won't live to regret this!!!

[mccoy]

I just wanted to thank everyone for
all the helpful advice they have have
given me in regards to Ozzie.:) When
I first joined the forum I got my tail
feathers ruffled on more than one occasion, special thanks to you WD for
helping me see the light even if you
did have to beat me with it.LOL:D:D

Friday night I started a thread in the Rainbow Bridge on Ozzie because I had
every intention of having him euthanized
this morning. Alot has happened between
then and now I'm not quite sure if it is
the right thing but I sure hope and pray
I don't live to regret this.

Since Friday night, I have been an emotional wreck because I knew what
I was doing was the best for all of us.
Alot of the problems he was having are
mine to because I always had a hard time
correcting him because of his past but
because of it his future was looking awful dim.

I am getting a man that trains Narcotic
dogs to evaluate him for me this weekend
I just hope it isn't putting off the inevitable. I know it has been only 3 days but I have been making him earn
his attention, sleep in his crate, and
correcting him for things he has done
with Time-out. And he thinks he's being treated like a dog!!:D:D I was joking but I really think it may help.

I hope I have made the right decision
for my family first of all because they
are the most important and for him all
I ever wanted to do was help him and
now maybe I can. Thanks again!:)

[Soapie&Buddy'sMom]

I really believe in going with your heart in these situations. If you feel he deserves this chance, God Bless You and Ozzie. I would say the same thing if you had made the decision that you tried everything and it wasn't going to be possible.

Having lived with three big dogs myself over the past three years, and seeing the extreme differences in temperament among them, not to mention the education i've gotten from this forum, I can understand when you know you've tried everything and the dog is a threat. But I also understand the hope and optimism that you can have for a dog that really does have potential. So good luck, and I hope things work out for you and Ozzie.

[LORHEL]

It is such a hard decision, we struggled for months after the first bite attempt at what to do (granted our situation was somewhat different --no abuse, but too many negatives) I had to give Zeke every chance that I could, to get better, even a little..something to show us that after working with him, in time, even if it was a year or so, it could get to the point where he could function in society (with restrictions), I fooled myself for a long time that he was okay, it was better, but I was wrong, and very lucky nothing bad happened.. but there was a breaking point for us, where after consulting again, with the person who evaluated him, we knew then we had to do what was right for Zeke, and for everyone's safety. We could not let him hurt an innocent person.

You have a different situation, you have children you have to look out for, whatever decision you make, don't feel bad, you are trying to undo what someone else has done, and giving it your best shot.

One day at a time, I hope Ozzie can make it, maybe with some tough love and strict rules set by you, he can recover. (Of course I don't mean any hitting or anything like that--tough love, making him work for things, setting up a schedule, practicing obedience, etc....)

I can tell you not to beat yourself up about it, but how can I when I did the same thing...agonizing over what is the right thing to do. Know you gave it your best, no matter what. Everyone has a different situation, and only you and your family know firsthand what you are dealing with and going through.

My best wishes for your family and Ozzie, whatever your decision is.

Lori

[n2rotts]

This is a great article for you to use to gain your leadership back in the eyes of your dog. It's non-violent, and it works if you work it. ;o)

Find the complete article here.

http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/alpha.htm

I have posted an excerpt below.

"This article was written by Vicki Rodenberg De Gruy, Chairman of the Chow Chow Club Inc.'s Welfare Committee. Uploaded with permission from the author, it may be reproduced for non-profit purposes with author's credit given."

WHO'S IN CHARGE HERE?
A lesson in becoming Alpha

* "My dog just tried to bite me! All I did was tell him to move over so I could sit on the couch next to him."
* "My dog got into the trash can and when I scolded her, she growled at me. What's wrong with her? I thought she loved me!"
* "Our dog is very affectionate most of the time but when we try to make him do something he doesn't want to do, he snaps at us."

What do these three dogs have in common? Are they nasty or downright vicious? No - they're "alpha". They've taken over the leadership of the families that love them. Instead of taking orders from their people, these dogs are giving orders! Your dog can love you very much and still try to dominate you or other members of your family.

Dogs are social creatures and believers in social order. A dog's social system is a "pack" with a well-defined pecking order. The leader of the pack is the alpha, supreme boss, Top Dog. He (or she) gets the best of everything - the best food, the best place to sleep, the best toy, etc. The leader also gets to be first in everything - he gets to eat first, to leave first and to get attention first. All the other dogs in the pack respect the alpha dog's wishes. Any dog that challenges the alpha's authority gets a swift physical reminder of just where his place in the pack really is.

Your family is your dog's "pack". Many dogs fit easily into the lower levels of their human pack's pecking order and don't make waves. They do what they're told and don't challenge authority. Other dogs don't fit in quite as well. Some of them are natural born leaders and are always challenging their human alpha's. Other dogs are social climbers - they're always looking for ways to get a little closer to the top of the family ladder. These natural leaders and the social climbers can become problems to an unsuspecting family that's not aware of the dog's natural pack instincts.

Some families encourage their dogs to take over the "pack" without realizing it. They treat their dogs as equals, not as subordinates. They give them special privileges like being allowed to sleep on the bed or couch. They don't train their dogs and let them get away with disobeying commands. In a real dog pack, no one but the alpha dog would get this kind of treatment. Alpha doesn't have anything to do with size. The tiniest Chihuahua can be a canine Hitler. In fact, the smaller the dog, the more people tend to baby them and cater to them - making the dog feel even more dominant and in control of his humans.

Alpha dogs often seem to make good pets. They're confident, smarter than average, and affectionate. They can be wonderful with children and good with strangers. Everything seems to be great with the relationship - until someone crosses him or makes him do something he doesn't want to do. Then, suddenly, this wonderful dog growls or tries to bite someone and no one understands why.

In a real dog pack, the alpha dog doesn't have to answer to anyone. No one gives him orders or tells him what to do. The other dogs in the pack respect his position. If another dog is foolish enough to challenge the alpha by trying to take his bone or his favorite sleeping place, the alpha dog will quickly put him in his place with a hard stare or a growl. If this doesn't work, the alpha dog will enforce his leadership with his teeth. This is all natural, instinctive behavior - in a dog's world. In a human family, though, this behavior is unacceptable and dangerous.

Dogs need and want leaders. They have an instinctive need to fit into a pack. They want the security of knowing their place and what's expected of them. Most of them don't want to be alpha - they want someone else to give the orders and make the decisions. If his humans don't provide that leadership, the dog will take over the role himself. If you've allowed your dog to become alpha, you're at his mercy and as a leader, he may be either a benevolent king or a tyrant!

If you think your dog is alpha in your household, he probably is. If your dog respects only one or two members of the family but dominates the others, you still have a problem. The dog's place should be at the -bottom- of your human family's pack order, not at the top or somewhere in between.

In order to reclaim your family's rightful place as leaders of the pack, your dog needs some lessons in how to be a subordinate, not an equal. You're going to show him what it means to be a dog again. Your dog's mother showed him very early in life that -she- was alpha and that he had to respect her. As a puppy, he was given a secure place in his litter's pack and because of that security, he was free to concentrate on growing, learning, playing, loving and just being a dog. Your dog doesn't really want the responsibility of being alpha, having to make the decisions and defend his position at the top. He wants a leader to follow and worship so he can have the freedom of just being a dog again.
http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/alpha.htm

[mccoy]

I guess the first thing I need to say is
I will in no way endanger my children by
keeping him. I know that he's not going to be cured overnight but I feel as much
to blame for his actions not the aggression he knows better but for not
giving him enough "Tough Love" maybe I am wrong but if this doesn't work then
I know what I have to do...

The incident with my son happened once, I am fully aware that it just takes once
but the other aggression has been towards my husband and there is a trust
issue there that we are fully aware of.
My husband bless his heart has been so
supportive with him this weekend, I may
sound crazy but it was like the three of
us knew it was now or never.

Rickie has made progress with him this
weekend as far as trust it is going to
take along time but for the first time
in the year I have owned him Today is
the first time I have ever seen him show
Rickie any affection. Not much to most
people I know but we are talking about
a big step for this dog.

Thanks I know everyone isn't going to
agree with our decision but it was one
made by every member of our family we
all think he deserves one last chance.

[Barbara Surplus]

mccoy, for what it's worth, I went through something similar to what you're going through with your boy after he'd been with us for about three years. Up to that point, he never showed any signs of agression. Then we had a dog bite incident that left me shaken and nervous around him. Needless to say, things got worse between us. I was on the verge of doing what you're contemplating.

After much soul-searching and heartache, I finally found the right person to help me with this dog. To cut a long story short, I turned him back around again and learned what I needed to know to forge an incredible bond with him. We never had another incident after that and he respected my wishes and my authority until the day we lost him to cancer.

If you feel it's the right thing to do, then spare him. But you MUST find help and you MUST do the things you need to to save this boy's life. Otherwise, you'll be back in the same place again and all will be lost.
Good luck. Thoughts are with you.
Barbara

[mccoy]

Barbara,

Thanks for the advice. Sorry about
your boy though, he has never gotten
to the bite point YET!! That is my
greatest fear and why I was thinking
about giving him some "peace".

This has been the strangest thing
though it was like he knew something
was going to happen. He has never-ever
shown my Husband any sort of affection
and I don't know if it's where he
wasn't getting my attention but he's
the one putting forth the effort now.:)

We have found someone to evaluate him
my Vet recommended after refusing to
let me give up. He has been thru alot
with him to been his Vet since birth
and brags about how much he has changed
for the better in the last 6 mths.

My 6 y/o thinks he's the greatest and
Ozzie does her to when my ex brought
them home last night I told her he
had something wrong with him and I was
going to take him to the Vet today and
he wouldn't be coming home.

My ex's parents belong to church, well
about an hour after she was put to bed
I heard her talking to someone went to
see who, she was hanging up the phone
and I asked her who she was talking to
she said "Grandma" I told her it was to
late she needed to go to bed.

She informed me that she called to have her Grandmother put Ozzie on their church's prayer-line. "Don't you know
that's what you do for someone when they
are sick Mommy"? Out of the mouths of
Babes! Last thing she did was kiss him
this morning never said another word about it.

When they came home from school I told
her he was still here she replies" I
know, I prayed for Jesus to make Ozzie
better". Let me tell you I don't think
I have ever felt like I did when she
said that. God Bless the Children!

[brunie's mom]

mccoy;
First of all I am glad that you are still trying with your Ozzie... and believe me no one will think less of you if you do have to put him down for aggression:(
The most simple solution has not been tried with him... NEUTER HIM !!! I know you husband does not want it done... but that is his problem. In all of the dog books and training books I have read the first step to helping solve aggression problems is to neuter intact dogs. This is not a magical solution.. you will still have to work on training and behaviour problems... but once the testostorone levels go down life can be much easier in your house.
I have raised and worked with cattle and horses for many years.. there is a reason horses are gelded and bulls castrated... it makes them much easier to work with:)

There is no reason to keep Ozzie intact.... 75% of reported dog bites are caused by intact dogs.... it's a simple, safe operation.

Gina

[Sheenagirl]

I agree with Brunie's Mom - neuter him. I also work with cows and horses and can also tell you it's true, a neutered bull and stallion is more passive than an intact male. Me personally - I would not even think about putting a dog or anyother animal to sleep before completely exhausting ALL options - think about it please... ;)

[mccoy]

Thanks, I totally agree about the Steers
and Geldings I have owned cattle and horses before and I know what kind of
headache a Stallion can be the last one
we owned we had to have gelded.

I also totally agree that it will help
Ozzie to have him neutered and I am in
the process now going tommorrow to the
Vet he has been coughing pretty bad today and spit up someblood when I came
home this evening.

He is doing some better with his growling not going to brag on him right
now! Training, Training and trying to
be consistent rephrase BEING CONSISTENT!
I am proud of him though, just hoping it
stays this way.:D Had to brag a little!!