Fila's And Dobermans

[BIGWRIGHT]

I did some looking around for dogo's and breeders who worked dogo's very very short list but German I would like to know the breeders you know that do breed the right kind of Dogo. I also read an article on the Cane Corso in their words "THE DOG OF THE FUTURE" though heavily overpriced I contacted a few breeders and they claim this dog will replace the Rottweiler "Ha ha ha ha" It seems like allot of breeders are comparing their dogs to the Rottweiler. Well I guess if you know someone who has the best and can't have it you try to make something close to it. The only thing that bothers me is the fact that breeders would sell these dogs to be more menacing than a rottweiler. In fact one add even concidered their dogs as the judge, Jury and executioner. I agree with everyone about the dobie hence they go off my list of dogs in my family's future. The bulldog stillmay be their the dogo is diffenetly catching my interest as well as the Cane Corso. Yet all in all I may just stick to my rotties being an owner, trainer and just all around fanatic of them for 13 years may never get out of my blood.

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by BIGWRIGHT
Well Thank you german for your insight about the Dogo and the other dogs but I have seen some Dogo's that just were not impressive but then again that is just the two I have seen in here in Japan where their most prized dogs are the Tosa and the Akita and of course the shiba.

You are absolutely right. In Japan, Tosas and Akitas are considered "royalty", but then again, that's their native land, so the Japanese are a bit biased about their prized breeds ;) I have to tell you though, Tosas are for real, BUT, they too require experienced handlers. A Tosa Inu in the hands of a novice dog owner, is like giving an H&K MP-5 to a person with little or no gun experience. Dangereous, isn't?!

Originally posted by BIGWRIGHT
The other reason I started this topic is because their has been a rush of new breeds coming out always boasting to be better, more aggressive, more protective, stronger than any other breed. It's becoming a nightmare of untrained dogs with terrible breeding roaming the earth.

The above is so sad and so true. Unfortuntely, many people just want aggressive dogs for guarding purposes, but those people have little or no clue about a given breed's standards, canine behavior, proper rearing, the essentials of obedience training, and so forth and so on. Obvioulsly, some of those dogs eventually end up biting people, and then the entire breed is labeled as "dangereous". Such is the case of the three Presa Canarios owned by a couple of irresponsible lunatics in California. By the way, although kind of besides the point, those particular Presas didn't even meet the standards of the breed.

Originally posted by BIGWRIGHT
I know of one good kennel for presa Red star where I have seen their dogs work and have worked one their dogs offspring who was a impressive to bite but that's it.

Indeed, that kennel is the finest Presa breeder in the States. It's owned and operated by Alex Vityakin, a guy with a great "down to Earth" personality, and one of the best dog trainers and decoys in the world. If you get a Presa from him, rest assured you are getting your money's worth. However, his Presas are a bit too expensive, in my humble opinion.

Originally posted by BIGWRIGHT
Also breed that has tried to come out is the Cane Corso I feel this breed may be a good second to the Rottweiler but i have yet to see any factual working or protection trained Corso's yet.

The Cane Corso Italiano is very good looking dog, I agree, but let me assure you that is very hard to find a Cane Corso able to do personal protection and guard work, leave alone police patrol or military service. Oh yeah, Corso breeders will tell you that they are the "best guard dogs" in the world, and the Rottweiler is "nothing" compared to Corsos. Well, show me all those Corsos with the proven working abilities of a Rottweiler, where are they?... Don't hold your breath! ;) If only looks could kill, the Corso would be something else :p but good looks alone don't do it in the real world :D Besides, the Rottweiler has it all!

Originally posted by BIGWRIGHT
I love my rottie I just wanted to try another breed to work just as well just to see if any other breed could match up and to add a little variety to our family but sometimes I think I should just stick to the best and forget the rest.

You know what? You hit the nail right there! Stick to one of best breeds there is, and forget the rest. As you may noticed, I am heavily involved in dog protection and guard training, so I have had the opportunity to see and test many different breeds in action... What dogs do I own? I have two fine Rottweilers as my faithful companions and bodyguards. Think about it ;) You see, I am not a "blind fanatic" that says the Rottweiler is the best and the rest are "junk"!. The truth is, I love and respect many other fine breeds. However, as much as I like other excellent protection capable breeds, I settled for the one that fullfilled me and conviced me the most... and that is: the great Rottweiler! Why to "fix what isn't broke"?! ;) :)

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by CajunsMom
I too have seen Alex work a Presa, it wasn't "Turco" unfortunately the dog's name escapes me at the moment. But at the trial, Alex went in worked his dog, brought him out and was surrounded by people and kids and the dog stood and allowed people to pet him as many questions were asked of Alex. He is a wonderful handler and cares greatly about his beloved breed. I believe his dog took 4th in that trial.

Indeed, Alex is a great guy with great dogs (GSDs and Presas) ;) :)

[BIGWRIGHT]

THIS IS UNFORTUNATELY WHY IT IS SO HARD TO OWN AND HAVE OUR PRECIOUS BREED AND WHY I WANTED TO GET OUT OF THE SPOTLIGHT BUT IT STILL DOESN'T DETER ME TO LOVE MY BREED JUST DESPISE THE ONES WHO DO NOT FEEL OR TREAT THE ROTTWEILER THE SAME WAY.




Dog Owners Charged With Manslaughter
Couple Charged In Dog Attack That Killed 1-Year-Old
Posted: 6:53 a.m. MST December 19, 2001

LOVELL, Wyo. -- The owners of a dog that attacked and killed a
1-year-old girl have been charged with felony involuntary manslaughter.



The girl, Kristin Ann Jolley, was pronounced dead Oct. 29 after a
police
officer and construction worker pulled her away from the Rottweiler,
which was chained next to a trailer home.

The dog's owners, Matthew Martinez and Anne Shine, who live on West 2nd
Street, were also charged with being accessories to a felony.

Circuit Court Judge Robert Skar set a preliminary hearing for Dec. 27
and ordered bond of $5,000 each.

Martinez posted bail and was released, Deputy County Attorney J. Craig
Abraham said. Shine had not posted bail as of Tuesday and was being
held
in the Washakie County jail.

Each charge, filed Monday, carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in
prison and a $10,000 fine.

A court document said Shine and Martinez kept two Rottweilers, Max and
Chyna, chained in their unfenced yard.

Two weeks after her first birthday, Kristin wandered across the street
from her home and was attacked by Max, the document states.

After responding to a report of a dog mauling, Lovell Police Officer
Robert Bifano managed to pull Kristin away after using pepper spray on
the dog. He and Fred Darrington, a construction foreman who had tried
earlier to chase the animal away, drove Kristin to the hospital, where
she was pronounced dead.

The document alleges Martinez and Shine involuntarily but recklessly
caused Kristin's death and that they starved and mistreated the dog
until it became "a vicious animal that attacked and killed an innocent
child."

The previous owner of the dog, Karen Hytrek, told authorities that she
gave Max to Shine and Martinez. Hytrek said the dog weighed about 110
pounds, "was good-natured, was never known to have bitten anyone and
interacted well with children who attended school next to her home."

Veterinarian Jane Undem, who examined Max after the incident, said the
dog was "unusually thin" and weighed about 65 pounds. She said he was
"ravenous" when he was brought to her clinic, devouring four cups of
dry
dog food and then trying to eat some cat food when he was taken out of
his kennel.

The dog was destroyed so Undem could conduct a complete necropsy.


WHERE WILL IT END


TRAIN DON'T ABUSE -

[BIGWRIGHT]

Something else that bothers me a little I have a freind who bought an American Bulldog that a reputable german kennel Hexental has endorsed along with their excellent Rottweiler. Now those are proven American Bulldogs well my buddy because of stupidity didn't get one of the pups because he went crazy to me if you ask and bought some dog called the Ambeulo Mastiff I think that's what they call them which to me is bandog but the key here is this he had a great breeder with experience talked had the experience behind him and bought a breed that was just new and he new nothing about well guess what he just had the worst time explaining to ex-wife why this dog tried to attack his kids. The only literature on this breed is from the breeder. Also Germna you mentioned the price on the presa's were to much well we need to talk to some of our fellow Rottweiler breeders as well because they have become crazy as well I have seen unproven Rottweiler being sold for $3,000 dollars. Do you know that an average Rottweiler Puppy in Japan goes for $6,000 dollars I have had my new Rottie for about two years a puppy out of Lauser great dog who I am working with daily obediance first as any good owner should do then protection work It amazes me how some people just want to go straight to Bite work then trying to make the dog trained I bring up all this not to ramble but to let people know what may be going wrong with the way some people start off with thier dogs esecially our breed. I have bene known around our base as the dog man because I will comment on anything and about anyone's dog I see something wrong I show them the right way the ask me a question I answer it. I once had a lady come to me with a Rottweiler a puppy who had outgrown his choke chain so badly it was embedded in his kneck. :( I had to take a pair of plyers and a chain breaker to get it off his neck not to mention almost getting ripped to shreds by the 9 month old because he was scared out of his mind. I think all the new Rottie Owners shouls ask questions seek training now matter what and the old rottie owners should be their to answer questions educate and do whatever it takes to keep our rottie out of the news or from killing a family member. Just like we are doing here so for all your new Rottie owners coming here ask questions seek advice recommend to your friends who want rotties whatever it takes to make sure our dogs have a good life.


Sorry I just had to get that off my chest.

[MARYDVM]

I think your friend's dog was an AmbullNeo, a cross between an American Bulldog and a Neopolitan Mastiff. Aside from the drool factor, it's very difficult to predict how these first generation crosses will turn out. None of the serious (and successful) AB breeders I am familiar with would use their top dogs for this kind of mix.

[gparcels]

To German, If you had to rate the best lets say 5 working dogs in what order would you rate them. Gsd's, Rotts, Dobbs...Etc..? also I would think Fila's, Tosa's and other breeds derived from Mastiffs would be to large to make a good working dogs because of their lack of stamina, gaurd dog I guess thats a differents story. What do you think..?

[Joanne in NJ]

I know a person who's supposed to have the top Cane male right now in the US. I was told that the Italian judges are saying that he's exactly what they're looking for yadda yadda.

He's a nice dog. Well socialized, the owner has done a really nice job with him. He'll be even nicer when he mentally grows up.

I don't believe the dog has ever been worked at all other than conformation. They would have told me so, and also were making excuses for the dog not performing well in the presence of in-season bitches. This was just what the owners told me. I guess you have to read inbetween the lines.

You know what freaks me out though.... I can't stand underbites. Ugh. Sorry.

[kekaufman]

Never heard of a Fila Brasilerio before. looked it up, sorry folks but that is ONE UGLY DOG. Looks like some mad genetic scientist sewed a moose head on the beautiful body of a Rottie. Makes a Bassett Hound look elegamt.

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by gparcels
To German, If you had to rate the best lets say 5 working dogs in what order would you rate them. Gsd's, Rotts, Dobbs...Etc..? also I would think Fila's, Tosa's and other breeds derived from Mastiffs would be to large to make a good working dogs because of their lack of stamina, gaurd dog I guess thats a differents story. What do you think..?

You want to know MY personal top 5 protection breeds? In sequential order, they are: the Rottweiler, the Dogo Argentino, the Giant Schnauzer, the Presa Canario, and the American Bulldog, albeit there are other breeds I would feel quite comfortable with (I could easily list 20 more breeds!). I also want you to know that I have a separate list for breeds with guarding abilities, you know, the guard dogs.

As far as the Tosa Inu is concerned, this dog is very agile for his size and has plenty of stamina and endurance. I wouldn't say the same about the the Fila though :p

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by MARYDVM
I think your friend's dog was an AmbullNeo, a cross between an American Bulldog and a Neopolitan Mastiff. Aside from the drool factor, it's very difficult to predict how these first generation crosses will turn out. None of the serious (and successful) AB breeders I am familiar with would use their top dogs for this kind of mix.

The "Ambullneo" is a joke. That so-called breeder highly overprices those unoficially recognized cross-bred dogs, alleging they are the "ultimate protectors" (He probably reasoned: "If I cross a Neo with an American Bulldog, then I will have a biting machine!" :p His website is full of it! The "ambullneo" is not a bandog creation but a plain a mutt!... It's like "Let us cross a Bengal Tiger with a Hyena and a pitbull! That should do it!" There is another guy that crossed Great Danes, Rottweilers, Black Labradors, and pitbulls, and now he call THAT the "Canis Panther"!... Sure, the Canis Panther

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by Joanne in NJ
I know a person who's supposed to have the top Cane male right now in the US. I was told that the Italian judges are saying that he's exactly what they're looking for yadda yadda.

He's a nice dog. Well socialized, the owner has done a really nice job with him. He'll be even nicer when he mentally grows up.

I don't believe the dog has ever been worked at all other than conformation. They would have told me so, and also were making excuses for the dog not performing well in the presence of in-season bitches. This was just what the owners told me. I guess you have to read inbetween the lines.

You know what freaks me out though.... I can't stand underbites. Ugh. Sorry.

Is he Ed Hodas?!... Anyway, that's the problem right there. Most Cane Corso breeders breed with the purpose of showing conformation in the ring, but totally disregarding work abilities. Then they go and titled some of their dogs with a CGC (as in that were a "working" title), to claim that their Corsos are the "best guard dogs", without anything to back it up, except they look tough and bark deep However, Corso breeders have plenty of show ribbons to brag about :D

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by kekaufman
Never heard of a Fila Brasilerio before. looked it up, sorry folks but that is ONE UGLY DOG. Looks like some mad genetic scientist sewed a moose head on the beautiful body of a Rottie. Makes a Bassett Hound look elegamt.

I respect your opinion, you are entitled to it. However, the Fila Brasiliero is not only an officially recognized breed, but has a proven track record as a working dog, in the fields this dog has been specifically bred for. I think that the Fila is a very impossing looking dog, with a great body. The breed is also famous for being extremelly faithful and loyal to his family pack, standing out as a superb guard of lives and estates. It's not a breed for everybody though, but neither is the Rottweiler ;)

[Homerhomer]

Originally posted by German Vanegas


You want to know MY personal top 5 protection breeds? In sequential order, they are: the Rottweiler, the Dogo Argentino, the Giant Schnauzer, the Presa Canario, and the American Bulldog, albeit there are other breeds I would feel quite comfortable with (I could easily list 20 more breeds!). I also want you to know that I have a separate list for breeds with guarding abilities, you know, the guard dogs.

I would love to know what the other breeds are.
Thanks

[Justice]

Just as a reminder, we have different forums for different reasons. I would ask our members to look over our forums and find the proper forum for a specific Topic.

As for the couple facing charges, please refer to our Rottweiler News Forum.

In closing, please keep this Thread on course please. Thanks!