On List of "Watched" Sites Due to # of Posts Advocating Abusive Training Methods?

[AngelBunny]

I suggested to a Rottie owner on an about.com message board that he hop over here to check us out.

Was I ever surprised by the response of two of the other people who posted!

One claimed that rottweiler.net is on a list of watched Internet sites because of the frequency
of unremoved posts advocating abusive training techniques. (When I asked for the URLs of threads here where the consensus was that abusive methods were the right methods to use in training, the person didn't provide any. Nor did the person provide the name of group who's watching us.)

Another person chimed in with http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/sho...5&pagenumber=1 finding this thread within his or her first 60 seconds of visiting us.

While the person acknowledged the thread did contain debate about whether the technique is appropriate, I learned that of the roughly 15 dog training and behavior lists the person visited, rottweiler.net has by far the highest "macho violence" quotient.

Well, this long-time member of rottweiler.net was surprised, to say the least, that in some circles, the feeling is we're a bunch who use coercive training methods and advocate their use.

I was astonished to read the impression of us is a bunch of cowboys & girls who advocate bulling our dogs; being a member since 1999, my impression of the thousands of words I've read here is that we advocate training by positive reinforcement to start and especially with puppies.

I put little stock in what these people said because in the first instance, the person said she's never been to our site--she just heard we were a certain way. In the second instance, the person just spent 60 seconds here.

While I've heard we're a group of unfriendly, sarcastic people where posters need hides of steel to survive, this was the first time I heard we're advocates of abusive training methods.

[German Vanegas]

GOD! If they say that about this website, then I cannot even imagine what they may say about... well, I don't want to mention other websites, but there are some that by far are truly extreme. Here we don't talk about dog fighting, we don't talk about how to make a dog more aggressive, or how to heighten the dog's "gameness", or how to teach a dog to take cheap shots while doing "attack" training, and other stupid senseless issues that are common place and allowed in other websites, but not in this one! One only wonders if PETA is after this allegations...

Anyway, for the record, this website doesn't condone any abuse or cruelty to dogs! But all the contrary! We are all for good treatment and fairness to our beloved breed!

[SarasMom]

What a load of BS!!! These people are obviously uninformed or a few bricks short of a load!
I've been a member of Rottweiler.net for 2 years and have read thousands of posts. Abusive training methods have never been advocated here! In fact, I've seen many members "set straight" when they mentioned rolling, hitting, etc!!

Perhaps these people who think we are so mean and abusive are the same ones who don't believe in crate training because they think it cruel. The same ones who boohoo and wonder why when their poor dog gets electrocuted when it chews on the lamp cord or has to have surgery because it ingested something inedible while they were away!

[Teena]

I second what Sarasmom said! Some people you just can't reason with, even if you talked till you were blue in the face.
The way we pamper, worry about, and spoil our furkids??
Yes, we make them mind, but not with harsh methods! Gezzz!!!

[DixieGrl113]

To quote my youngest sister....WHATEVER! I've been to a lot of sites and this is the only one I've stuck with. If someone was REALLY watching this sight then there wouldn't be idiots like this out there saying we condone violence and/or cruelty in training or working with our dogs. Since I've found this site I've gotten more information and help with my dogs than the vet, trainer and other people have been able to give me combined. And with out the added prejudice against Rottweilers that someone else, even people that work at my old vet clinic, always seems to have. Thank You all for all of the excellent advice..keep it coming. :)

Happy Holidays!

[rottnvegas]

I personally don't consider a "roll" as an abusive training technique. I find it a critical tool that is to be used very sparingly and with surprise to communicate your point CLEARLY. Are these the same people who are at the dog park practically whispering there dog's name and wondering why it is not so much as pricking an ear to it's master's voice? Does the term "bleeding heart" mean anything to anyone?????? Go find something REAL to get up in arms about. First of all I think anyone should be applauded if they show interest in there dog's well being, not criticized for there techniques. Last time I checked, this isn't Afghanistan is it??????

[WorkinDogz]

Originally posted by German Vanegas
Anyway, for the record, this website doesn't condone any abuse or cruelty to dogs! But all the contrary! We are all for good treatment and fairness to our beloved breed!

That sums it up in a nutshell.

There is no way that abuse is an effective training tool; and quite frankly; if someone feels a firm, fair, correction with a leash IS abuse; then they should own anything BUT a dog.

These people make me laugh. (if they weren't so pathetic) They are the same ones with obese dogs that they kill with food and take offense when the Vet suggests a weight loss program to return the dog to NORMAL.

These are the same people that beg for "Help! Help!" and then do NOTHING to help themselves. Your choice. Do nothing.....complain that this "dear sweet, marshmallow, teddy bear" breed has such a "bad rap".....and yet...THEIR DOGS are the untrained ones.

Blow that sunshine up someone elses skirt; because it's nothing more than an excuse.

If 1/4 of the people reading the posts (not only members; but those who just read the posts) actually FOLLOWED THE ADVICE of some of the best dog minds IN DOGS; there would be a helluva lot less Rottweilers that have to SUFFER because they are owned by a bonafide IDIOT who is content being that way.

It's good to know though that these folks are the "minority". There will always be the bleeding hearts......and there will always be trainers out there to help the REST of society who is interested in fairly, consistantly and humanely training their dog.

It's just too bad that people still insist on forming an opinion about things they know little to nothing about. For them; I'm sorry. For their dogs; my heart breaks.

[Soapie&Buddy'sMom]

I come to this site specifically because it DOESN'T condone abusive training techniques!

When I first got Buddy, I was desparate - my only experience with dogs was with a pekingnese and then my Soapie girl, an extremely submissive chow-terrier mix. Along comes BUDDY! A rottweiler mix, about as different from Soapie as night and day.
One of the first books I bought was called "101 training tips for dogs" and I didn't realize until I read the whole thing that it condoned really goofball, antiquated training methods, like hitting the dog on the head with a childrens' book (it is still being sold on Amazon.com despite my scathing review posted there :p )

So anyway, to make a long story short, coming to this site has helped me so much - taught me to go to a trainer; about different kinds of aggression; etc.

VERY BIZARRE that this site is on any list other than the top ten places to be on the internet!!! ;)

[Rottie442]

Im a pretty new member here, and I have a great impression of this forum so far. Keep on providing the great information.

[Bruce Lanthier]

That's funny. In another thread on this forum I suggested reading -
Another person chimed in with http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/sh...15&pagenumber=1 finding this thread within his or her first 60 seconds of visiting us.
the exact same thread. The reason I suggested reading the thread was - This person is hitting their puppy to exert their "Alpha" position and I suggested reading this thread as way to establish their "leadership" role without hitting the puppy. I guess, for these other folks, hitting a puppy is OK but establishing a leadership role in a way that dogs understand is coercive and abusive .

[damp]

IF this site preferred, preached or advocated abusive training methods, I would not have been here for 2 ½ yrs.

I am proud to tell, I am a member of Rottweiler.net… the most educating dog site on the world wide web I know about.

I hope these people will continue to watch us… then they have a chance to be “a little more” enlightened...but unfortunately… some people are too stupid to learn!!!

[TwitEm]

Wow--what a crock. I have been on this site a lot and have never read any threads advocating abusive training methods----have read many threads where abusive methods are criticized in no uncertain terms, however.

Following positive reinforcement suggestions, training advice on this forum, have a great puppy---my 11 month old Rottie Anna has nver shown food aggression, will give up anything on command, is friendly to one and all and has First place ribbon in KPT and basic obedience, and is continuing her training with Novice Obedience drop-ins and Basic Agility. Had I not been on this forum, doubt if I would have started puppy training with sit, hand feeding from day one, give/take it, etc. Also doubt if I would have considered on-going training!

I personally didn't use the "roll-over" Alpha thing mentioned in the Monks of New Skete training books, but I did roll Anna over on her back alot, touched her all over, massaged her from early puppyhood. Have made her wait at the door so much that she automatically waits for me to go first--even up the stairs. All this was accomplished with food treats at first, lots of praise and excitement when she did it. As I said, most of my techniques came from this forum. TWitEm

[Mick Trainer]

All I can say is "WHO CARES?" I gave up a long time caring what the modern animal rights activist thought of what I do. I will stand by my personal record as well as the record of those here for the amount of dogs and handlers/owners who we have help to fix somtimes serious behavioral problems. If they want to talk animal rights them look at the number of dogs who would have found their way to the local animal shelter or worse if not for the advice given on this board.

I always laugh when I hear the term "abusive training technique". If this does not lend itself to "subjective judgements" then I do not know what does. What one person calls abusive another will call too soft, weak or what ever. Others still may see us all as abusive for doing any training with the dogs at all, instead of just letting them run free and enjoy themselves with no rules. But we all know the reality of such a situation.

So like I said who cares, people like this can call me abusive all they want, but I will put my training record and the record of this board against any. Ask yourself how many people has German helped on his own now days, man it is too many to mention. Add to that those like Judi W, WorkinDogz, MaryDMV etc etc etc.

"And oh Jeezzz their watching us, oh no what will I do". Ha let them look, they may learn something.

For me we can all stand tall on our record. "Who Cares" what they think?

Mick.

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by Mick Trainer
All I can say is "WHO CARES?" I gave up a long time caring what the modern animal rights activist thought of what I do. I will stand by my personal record as well as the record of those here for the amount of dogs and handlers/owners who we have help to fix somtimes serious behavioral problems. If they want to talk animal rights them look at the number of dogs who would have found their way to the local animal shelter or worse if not for the advice given on this board.

I always laugh when I hear the term "abusive training technique". If this does not lend itself to "subjective judgements" then I do not know what does. What one person calls abusive another will call too soft, weak or what ever. Others still may see us all as abusive for doing any training with the dogs at all, instead of just letting them run free and enjoy themselves with no rules. But we all know the reality of such a situation.

I concur with Mick.

[Leahjean]

I wholeheartedly agree with you all,.I came here when my Big Leah was dying of osteosarcoma and all I had was good advice from careing people,whom I appreciate to this day..I have not seen any encouragement for cruelty,to the contrary,everyone who posed a question or statement that they were going to do this /like this,were quickly told the correct ,most useful way to do whatever it was.,Maybe that person would disagree,didn't matter it was quickly reinforced by other members...I (The original softie) would surely be gone and sounding off before I left and maybe gone further.,But No NEVER have I read anything that would make me agree with this/these persons. I have learned alot here and am happy my pups have reaped the rewards,as they will not have to deal with the pound or shelter because they were out of control..Thanks to all...