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General Info What size crate? Where to find insurance? If it doesn't quite fit in the other main forums, it goes here. We will add forums as needed.

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  #46  
Old 04-05-2012, 09:43 AM
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Re: German Rottweiler / American Rottweiler

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Originally Posted by FEsrigoHL View Post
Sometimes. Marks on a Ger Rott are usually richer in color & smaller on the chest. But there is a certain "look" to the best Ger Rotts that can't be explained. You need to go to some AKC shows & German style & take photos & then compare them. IF you have the "eye" you will see the difference.
My dog's dam was imported from Germany and her sire is a German dog ... she has a quite large markings on her chest and very clear tan colored markings in general. Oh ... and her litter sister was the no 1 Sieger bitch in the US last year or the year before.
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  #47  
Old 04-05-2012, 10:34 AM
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Re: German Rottweiler / American Rottweiler

Well; I joined the ADRK in 1955. I've been to Germany & other European countries to see Rottweilers. Usually Belgian dogs have German dogs directly behind them. I showed AKC from the early 60's onward. So I have a good overview from my vantage point. Every situation can be slightly different; but that is my experience. There are other type differences too, but novice people are hardly able to see those with an unpracticed eye. I've also participated in German style shows & JUDGED THEM & AKC SHOWS, in the USA for a LONG time. I am known to have the "eye".
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  #48  
Old 04-05-2012, 10:41 AM
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Re: German Rottweiler / American Rottweiler

Who wins at shows is the function of the judge. But with such good color in Germany I don't see why anyone who buys German would not take advantage of that. I mentored the manager of a very winning German style Rott kennel in the USA. All their winning dogs have excellent color. They win High Vs in European & US competition . I did say SOMETIMES. End of this discussion for me
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  #49  
Old 04-05-2012, 12:54 PM
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Re: German Rottweiler / American Rottweiler

You know... There is a different "look" between the seiger shows and AKC shows. The different venues tend to reward a slightly different style, BUT a nice, structurally correct dog/bitch will place at either. This is likely because some breeders tend to show in one venue or the other (for many different reasons) and so the same lines tend to be more common in those venues. Different breeders have different "looks", and some lines tend to breed true and have a certain look and so carry over from one breeder to another.

And for the record, of the two dogs I have in the gallery, the big "blocky" one was many generations of American breeding, and the slightly leaner, leggier one is a Belgian import. I get comments on him being a mix ALL the time Could be the tail...
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  #50  
Old 04-05-2012, 03:37 PM
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Re: German Rottweiler / American Rottweiler

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Originally Posted by FEsrigoHL View Post
Sometimes. Marks on a Ger Rott are usually richer in color & smaller on the chest. But there is a certain "look" to the best Ger Rotts that can't be explained. You need to go to some AKC shows & German style & take photos & then compare them. IF you have the "eye" you will see the difference.
Obviously you are a newcomer to the breed. I have friends with German, Dutch, French and Belgium imports and they also have their "American Rotties" lol A Rottweiler is a rottweiler is a rottweiler! Markings range from straw colored to a deep mahoganey with the preferred being the darker. I have seen Lightly marked dogs in Germany and Sweden and darkly marked dogs born in the USA. I have been in this breed for over 30 yrs and have bred and shown numerous dogs to their Conformation and working titles. So I think I know a little about this wonderful breed. There would probably be more uniformity if we too had breeding restrictions such as Germany and many European countries do. But it only makes a person look foolish if they claim they can tell the difference between Rotties from Germany or Belgium or america thats just a whole lot of Bull Puckey! Ok I'm thru venting
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  #51  
Old 04-05-2012, 07:48 PM
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Re: German Rottweiler / American Rottweiler

I don't know Betty... I have not been "in" Rotts for as long as you, but I have owned quite a few and have been "in" them long enough to usually be able to spot a European bred dog vs a Russian/eastern European vs an AKC dog... The look that is desirable in different places is well, different. The standard is the same, no doubt, but the "look" is different.

But with the advent of AI, lines can be more mixed and looks merged.

Jumping to conclusions about others on a board like this isn't always a great idea... Seems that FEsrigoHL has over 50 years "in" the breed AND judges. S/he might have a different opinion, but a valid one.
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  #52  
Old 04-05-2012, 08:04 PM
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Re: German Rottweiler / American Rottweiler

Thank you Noel. I make decisions on facts & experience; not on opinion & emotion. I spoke to the manager of a strong Rottie kennel & she LAUGHED when I told her someone said I can't tell the difference & said that person should say that SHE can't tell the difference. She said she can tell. She is going to the IFR in Barcelona with several Rotts. Not everyone has equal abilities in every area; especially self important people who think they know it all. You CAN NOT learn that way.
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  #53  
Old 04-05-2012, 08:10 PM
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Re: German Rottweiler / American Rottweiler

Oh... BUT, for the record, I still laugh when people talk about their German Rott that they got down the street. I try to help educate the uninformed that there is only one standard, and some unless the dog is an import (and it must have a tail) then it is an American bred dog with German blood lines. And it helps that I can point to Hav and say he is a Belgian dog.

Most just don't know about dogs and breeding. The repeat what they hear and what they are told is the truth. I also prefer to say the "American" Rotts are just a little "out of standard" as opposed to "American" because there seems to have developed a stigma about that title...
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  #54  
Old 04-05-2012, 08:19 PM
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Re: German Rottweiler / American Rottweiler

You keep up the good work. Ignorance abounds, but can be corrected. Stupity cannot.
There is always a lot of jealousy against someone who wins a great deal. It is disgusting. They buy & breed with the also rans because they don't feel inferior to them. It is a complicated field & having to deal with humans means it will always be a struggle. After a point it is just TOO much & NOT worth the angst.
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  #55  
Old 04-05-2012, 09:38 PM
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Re: German Rottweiler / American Rottweiler

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Originally Posted by FEsrigoHL View Post
Thank you Noel. I make decisions on facts & experience; not on opinion & emotion. I spoke to the manager of a strong Rottie kennel & she LAUGHED when I told her someone said I can't tell the difference & said that person should say that SHE can't tell the difference. She said she can tell. She is going to the IFR in Barcelona with several Rotts. Not everyone has equal abilities in every area; especially self important people who think they know it all. You CAN NOT learn that way.
Sounds to me like the breeder you mention is rather self important.

I spent 4 years in Germany, interacting with German born/bred dogs on a daily basis. Brought a bitch back to the States with me. It is my experience, backed up by the facts stated in the breed standard both in Germany AND the United States - THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE TAIL OR LACK THERE OF.
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  #56  
Old 04-05-2012, 10:49 PM
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Re: German Rottweiler / American Rottweiler

YOO HOO. You are showing your ignorance., The standard may be virtually the same : BUT in Germany Germans judge. In the US MANY nationalities judge the German style shows & mostly Americans judge the AKC with some Canadians & other nationalities. In Germany the judges are under strict control & REMOVED if they do things the ADRK does not like. In the US the judges are often NOT good judges & mostly from other breeds. Boxer people will put up Boxer type: Mastiff breeders Mastiff type, & so on. NOT always & not 100 % but their decisions are biased by their breed. The BOB weimar at the Garden & the Dobe ARE ABSOLUTELY NOT like their German counterparts. PERIOD. I've seen AKC judges put up THE most HORRID specimens so the ringside gasped & stood up en masse & walked away. The person I mentioned is VERY capable. She KNOWS her stuff. She trained Sch in Germany; is going to the IFR this month; etc.. If YOU really think Ger & USA Rotts of American lines look the same YOU need ocular surgery or maybe you should be sure to say it your opinion & not necessarily fact. Also hopefully you do not breed. Your "eye" is not up to it. If Rotts were the same all over the Germans would not keep their lines so pure. A foreign dog can't even win CS.. It happened with a Scandanavian dog many years ago, but never again. I don't say all German dogs look alike. But the best & biggest winners do NOT look like USA Rotts, unless they are directly from German dogs. Generally, the Germans do NOT let their best go; but dogs that have problems themselves or that produce one : hemophilia, cerebral hyperplasia, HD or who won't have pups or who won't breed. WB at the CRC a couple of years ago would not even have made a good Dobe & had a horrid head. The ex Pres of the ARC was horrified, as was I. You can live in a country for 10 years & still not be an expert in ANYTHING. Telling people what they are able to perceive over & above what you perceive is THE height of rudeness & self importance & HOW ! NO WONDER there are so many no account Rotts in the US when people have so little perception. Doesn't the fact that Rotts SO seldom do Group anything or BIS anywhere in the US; even at the height of their popularity signal that the quality is NOT there... well I think so. People breed to 2nd rate dogs while MUCH better dogs sit idle... THAT is a FACT.. because of politics, jealousy & ignorance/stupidity. It makes me sad for the dogs. NO I have no stud dog(s). There is a reason German dogs sell at a premium around the world. It is NOT because they are the same as Rotts from other countries.
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  #57  
Old 04-05-2012, 10:56 PM
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Re: German Rottweiler / American Rottweiler

I totally agree with you Sandi. And as far as being jealous or thinking I know it all thats actually very funny considering I am the type of person who looks for things to learn all the time and I know I will never know it all. With that being said I am not jealous of anyone winning I have shown both german style and akc my male was v1 rated and a BISS and went to #1 in the nation in 3 mos and also was a therapy dog. in his litter 4 of 6 finished their championships and got working titles of some sort. My female I bought out was #8 in the nation and also V1 rated at 23 mos of age by a German Judge who really wanted to take her back to Germany with him. I love it when nice dogs win and when people look to better the breed when breeding rather than breeding top dog to top bitch just cause they are. I have also judged several non sactioned events and am a certified CGC tester. No I dont know it all nor will I ever but I also dont believe that ignorance is bliss. JMHO
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  #58  
Old 04-05-2012, 11:20 PM
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Re: German Rottweiler / American Rottweiler

Well that is a turn around. Good for you. Keepo it up. Just don't presume to know the abilities of another person . Just because you don't think someone has a particulasr ability does not mean they don't have it. Someone told me puppies don't do big winning... at AKC shows. I did, getting most points, inc majoirs from the puppy classes; RWB at a Specialty..plus WD at a Specialty at 13 months..over DUX v. Hungerbuhl. BOB & BOS from the Veterans Class at a Specialty: finished Ch in 4 shows, etc..This is my last word. None of this is to put others down because they have done less... but that I be respected for what I've done. I could not have done all I did if I did not have some outstanding abilities that others at that time did not have & all on the barest amount of money.
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  #59  
Old 04-06-2012, 06:19 PM
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Re: German Rottweiler / American Rottweiler

Quote:
Originally Posted by FEsrigoHL View Post
Sometimes. Marks on a Ger Rott are usually richer in color & smaller on the chest. But there is a certain "look" to the best Ger Rotts that can't be explained. You need to go to some AKC shows & German style & take photos & then compare them. IF you have the "eye" you will see the difference.
I have had a few dozen people say "Oh, THAT is a German Rottweiler" looking at Carsten and I have had people say they could tell by the markings and his body type. Sadly for them, they were wrong, he is just a plain old AKC Rottoweiler. His picture is in the Gallery
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  #60  
Old 04-06-2012, 07:25 PM
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Re: German Rottweiler / American Rottweiler

That only begs the question. Not everyone has the same capabilities, obviously. What obne can see another can not. There is even an inflection in Chinese that people over 12 can not discern, I am 77 & I can discern it. Does this mean there is no inflection because most can not hear it? No. It means they can not hear it, but I can. I hope this silly conversation is OVER.

PS Also there may be German dogs behind an Am Rott whose special characteristics are hidden for a generation or so & are then manifested. There is more in heaven & on earth ..........

Last edited by roscoe; 04-06-2012 at 08:08 PM.
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