Going to show my tailed rottweiler in AKC

[frontierrots]

the standard also says "set is more important than length"

I have docked dogs and always will, but have no problem with anyone showing a tailed dog because "set is more important than length" and if all else is correct then the dog deserves to win

[bigdogweilerx2]

Originally Posted by Luvtails

For your info... I have NO docked pups.

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pa

Re: when can you dock a puppies tail

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My puppies were done at 3hrs old. they were delivered by c section and once everyone was nursing well my vet did their dews and tails. he said he does it as young as possible due to the thickness of the bone. My guys are 7 weeks and doing well. My vet's standard is before 5days old. Also my last litter was 24hrs old when they wre done. all did well.

[Luvtails]

Originally Posted by bigdogweilerx2

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pa

Re: when can you dock a puppies tail

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My puppies were done at 3hrs old. they were delivered by c section and once everyone was nursing well my vet did their dews and tails. he said he does it as young as possible due to the thickness of the bone. My guys are 7 weeks and doing well. My vet's standard is before 5days old. Also my last litter was 24hrs old when they wre done. all did well.

FYI, I did not keep a pup from this litter as I am looking for a particular show female and the female is not quite what I was looking for. Therefore I have NO docked puppies that I am able to show. Besides, If I breed "Ever" in the future I will NOT DOCK. I am going to show her and enjoy myself as I used to at shows. It is sad to think a thing like a tail on your dog can come between people.

[Luvtails]

The only reason I bothered to post this was to hopefully encourage others in my area to show their tailed dogs as well. I am going to show in USRC in fact this April and will also show in UKC. The AKC shows are more often and closer to my house. I like to get out there and do something with my dogs. Thanks for the positive feedback from most of you. I am still going to enter her. As for trying to get into a club that I don't belong,, Is a Rottweiler not a Rottweiler? My tailed dogs have AKC papers that say they are Rottweilers. Same club as yours... Hmmm Oh well, I am done here.

[bigdogweilerx2]

I like all dogs but what I'm saying there are clubs that alow it so you go to them don't try and change it just to suite you, it's in the rules.If you change one thing then the next mite be Albino dogs and so on and then you don't have a standard anymore.There are things in a German show I don't like ,but I won't go and tell them to change them for me.I respect their rules and don't go to them.

[TrinaJ]

You go girl, make all those rotties with tails proud !!!! Like frontierrots says SET is more important than length (I couldn't find the tail docking in the Australian standards, AKC must have different standards,unless ours have already been amended). Is it not prohibited in the UK as well now to dock tails?

You are going to see a lot of Australian CH Rotties with tails in the near future.... Like I said in another post somewhere :rolleye: In Victoria, where i live, it is now considered an OFFENCE and is PROHIBITED for an owner or person in charge to show or exhibit an animal or allow an animal to be shown or exhibited where an animal has had a prohibited procedure conducted on it (ie tail docking, debarking, ear cropping). Provisions have been built into this offence relating to when the procedure was done and where it was done (ie if the animal has been imported with the procedure already conducted - supporting paperwork must be submitted). I will not surprise me if this becomes Australia wide very soon, if it is not already.

The only tail docking permitted in Victoria is when it has been conducted by a vet for theraputic reasons (for the health or welfare of the animal).

Provided the docking was done prior to 12 December 2007 you will still be able to show
it. However for any dog born after the commencement of these amendments (12/12/07)
which is docked you will need to demonstrate that the docking was done legally if it is to be
shown.

If a dog has not previously resided in Victoria and is already docked, debarked or ear
cropped and then brought in from interstate or overseas, allowance has been made for the dog to be shown provided the procedure was done in accordance with the legislation of the
jurisdiction (country/state/territory) in which the procedure was carried out.
If the procedure was carried out on the dog in Australia, a veterinary certificate stating that the procedure was done in accordance with the law of the relevant jurisdiction will allow the animal to be shown. In relation to imported dogs, the importation or supporting documentation should show that the procedure had occurred prior to importation and that the procedure was done legally according to the laws of the jurisdiction in which the procedure was carried out.

Upon conviction, fines of up to $3,215 or 12 months imprisonment apply if a person (other
than a vet) docks a dog’s tail, or if a vet docks a tail where it is not considered reasonably
necessary for therapeutic purposes or for allowing a prohibited procedure to be done.
If a person intentionally damages a dog or a pup’s tail they would be committing an offence
under the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act 1986, and be liable for a fine of up to $6,429 or 24 months imprisonment.
If a person in Victoria shows or exhibits a dog that was illegally tail docked, a penalty up to
$2202 applies. These fines apply to any prohibited procedure that is carried out.

[TrinaJ]

Originally Posted by bigdogweilerx2

I like all dogs but what I'm saying there are clubs that alow it so you go to them don't try and change it just to suite you, it's in the rules.If you change one thing then the next mite be Albino dogs and so on and then you don't have a standard anymore.There are things in a German show I don't like ,but I won't go and tell them to change them for me.I respect their rules and don't go to them.

In some instances the clubs dont have a choice, legislations are made and passed and we must obide by them, regardless of the fact that we may think its right or wrong. Its all up to the "power that be" in the end.

I just think she should be allowed to show her dogs in ANY show, they are BORN with a tail.

[FilosFolks]

I applaud you Luvtails for sticking your "tail" out there and wish you the best of luck, have fun, and I hope you inspire others.

Why is it, that the AKC standard, which is supposedly followed from our euro partnerships, can't figure out how to judge a tail??

Were these dogs not originally from across the pond?? Other, OLDER, nations judge this breed with a tail.

"Too difficult and expensive" sounds like a pretty poor excuse for the standard and/or the judges that profess to bettering our breed.

Aesthetics, and a will to be different HERE makes more sense.

What is the real reason for the common AKC judgement against tails if it professes to follow most Int'l standards with regards to Rotts?

The AKC standard?? And that's all??

If that is all holding back good tailed Rotts in the AKC then all it will take are more folks like Luvtails to change it.

Just look at the International Rott community and the good dogs the AKC is excluding. Change can be good if given a chance, though most people are not comfortable with it.

Ailee

[Marylou Mader]

Good luck to you. Let me tell you, most good all round judges will judge the tail, I make it a point to ask judges, and the average is YES they will. You will notice that many breeds are being presented with tails, Affenpinschers, cocker spaniels, Welsh Springers, etc.

[targonrotts]

i agree with frontier rotts. she said it like i say it...and gets me into arguments many times.
the standard does say set is more important than lenght....so a complete tail is just a "long" stub!
i think the dogs should be judged on their merrits. and if the best dog has a tail, then that dog should win.
i have seen mediocre dogs win over a dog who is obviously superior, just because it had a tail.just as i have seen judges immediately excuse dogs from the ring because they had a tail.

as to the standard...it is not akc. the arc(parent club) is the one who can change the standard with the required votes and approval. akc is just the keeper of the standards.

good luck at the shows! there are more important things we need to work on, such as our rights to still own and breed our dogs, without worrying about a tail. IMHO.

as to what i do...i dock my tails. i like the look better. but if tomorrow we can't, i can live with it.

[frontierrots]

The ARC/AKC standard does NOT need to be changed. The loophole for tailed dogs is already there as I said before "set is more important than length"

People need to just stop making such a production over this. The standard does not prohibit tailed dogs and the loop hole for a whole tail is there. Just show whatever dog you want.

If more people did this rather than worry about who likes what then all the judges would get used to seeing at least 1 tail at every show.

I have been in this breed 23 years. "I" prefer docked docks. But I seriously don't see what the heck all this hoop a la is about. I mean geesh, certain groups making judges sign a statement that they will excuse tails, trying to get the standard changed to address tails (both ways) etc.. aren't there more important things to deal with?

[JemarsSerena]

What I don't understand is if a the ADRK and FCI acknowledge both varieties, why is the ARC still living in the stone age. Rott breeders have been importing dogs for years to keep a mix in the bloodlines. This will inevitably lead to more tailed rotts in the U.S.. To keep these dogs out of the largest shows in the country is crime as far as I am concerned.

I say get out there and do if for no other reason but to have fun. We don't win as often as I would like, but I still have fun everytime I go in the ring regardless of outcome. We'll see you in April in Kentucky, good luck!

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Marylou Mader

Good luck to you. Let me tell you, most good all round judges will judge the tail, I make it a point to ask judges, and the average is YES they will. You will notice that many breeds are being presented with tails, Affenpinschers, cocker spaniels, Welsh Springers, etc.

It all depends on what you mean by "will judge the tail". Seeing as there have only been very few judges that have pointed a tailed rott in the AKC ring, I think a lot of them will SAY it doesn't matter to them, but the results say different. On a sad note, DUTCH, the very first tailed rott to attain his AKC Championship, died recently. Dutch was a very good dog, and was owned by my good friend Carol Laskey.

[Karla]

Luvtails,

Enjoy showing your tailed Rott in AKC shows!!!! I will be showing our tailed Rott at a few AKC events that are close to home. The standard does not say that having a tail is a fault or that it MUST be docked. The judges will just have to get used to seeing them. I am aware that we may be excused or not placed, but, like you, I will be there to have FUN and for the experience for both me and the dog so let them not give me a ribbon.

When the judge said to you, " shame he has a tail, he's a nice boy", it would have been tempting to reply in a neutral tone of voice, "Did you only judge his back end?"

I hope you have a great time at the show!!!!

JemarsSerena,

If you are meeting at a show in Kentucky in April, where is it at? I will be attending the HUGE AKC show in Louisville March 13-16 and USRC Nationals in Franklin May 16-18.

[BostonRott]

All I would ask is that you are gracious and courteous at the show site. Do NOT go in there with an attitude, and let anything said to you, or done to you, roll off your back.

I showed my tailed bitch at the Boston shows over 2 years ago. It was an interesting experience, with nasty comments from professional handlers and dirty looks from many ARC big wigs. I just ignored it all. The all-round judge took a VERY good hard look at my girl. The breeder-judge acted like my dog had 3rd stage syphyllis and gave her a more brief exam than Nov A obedience.

I prefer the tails for their performance advantages, it definitely makes a difference. That said, I will not force my choice on anyone, and feel that some with tails (not aimed at you Jen) seem to have a real chip on their shoulder about taking their dogs to AKC events to "show up those AKC people." I think that kind of attitude is absolutely useless and detrimental to the breed. I'd love to see such people just get out of the breed and head off somewhere else, they do no one any good.